Can you hear Richie's absence from THINFS?

Not intentional in the sense "let's get at Richie". Not at all. Jon is way too smart for that, he knows petty doesn't look good on him. What I like and I appreciate is that both Teardrop and THINFS could be about Richie's departure but are subtle enough to let you read between the lines without being too obscure to make you think you have to read between the lines. If that makes any sense at all

But I gotta tell you something, the BJ fans I know are Richie fans. They support the band and like the single but they are very very nitpicky and make a lot of noise (think rolo on steroids lol). And are ready to criticize everything and anybody for the tiniest mistake (by anybody I mean Jon and JS). They notice those things. First comments about the song: "sounds too much like HAND, not even in their wildest dreams can they make a better record than HAND, Shanks is a bla bla bla bla, he will never sound like Richie" which was my aha moment, what if Shanks came up with HAND? I always thought he was like a session guitarist, filling up the sound, that gave me a different perspective and that's why I asked the experts here. I remember there was a previous version which I think was prior to Shanks involvement and it sounded different. I would appreciate if someone can remind me where to find it since I don't have my own computer here and I can't remember where I got it. Maybe it'll solve the mystery.

I can see Shanks trying to assert his role in the band, though. Not necessarily comparing himself to Richie, but after all the shit many fans throw at him (unfairly I should add, for reasons that had been debated here ad nauseatum) I could understand if he wanted to prove that BJ sounds the way it sounds thanks to him, for better or worse, and that includes the fan favorite HAND. That BJ at his rockiest is also thanks to Shanks.

That's generally the reason bands tune down half a step, to make it easier on the vocalist.

That's right, but I meant something else, wrong expression, sorry :P I meant that the band recorded on the original keys except Jon who was a step down and then Shanks transposed him higher!

Yes, yes you are lol! I think there's been a few, like 'I am', 'any other day' and such but I don't really think the number is as high as people claim. 'Follow' for example, I have no doubt that maybe they wrote it in Am, but as far as recording it, it was definitely recorded in G#m standard E tuning, recording it in Am finger half a step down and then play it in G#m would be like working backwards....

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Based on the songs I've figured out how to play, my list, for Shanks era songs is at:

I'm With You
No Apologies
The More Things Change
This is love...
Bullet
Fast Cars
Any Other Day
Seat Next To You

Hmm. Less than I expected. Nevertheless I still assume they recorded this song a half step down.

Why start with the Shanks era? Bounce had songs played on a seven string guitar, and Undivided's main riff is pretty much a drop-d tuning. Or do these not count because they feature LOWER guitars, but not LOWERED tunings?

Most of bounce was tuned to drop D PLUS baritone guitars.

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Ill have to check in the morning to see if anything was half step down but Undivided, the distance, hook me up and love me back to life were all drop D with baritone guitars low in the mix as well)

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Hey guys it is a little bit funny reading how you made all these technical musical comments (facts) but you dont see the evident reason why the riffs (HAND & THINFS) are the same:

Em G C G is exactly the same chord progression as Bm D G D.
It is just transposed 2,5 tones higher..

Since you play music you should know that the exact scale doesn't matter, what matters is the interval between the notes.

So yeah the riffs are almost identical, though at the end something changes in the rhythm and HAND has one more chord (namely A).

Moreover the producer made sure the sound of the guitar is very similar.

So Captain, the facts you posted are supporting what everybody hears, that the new song has an obvious HAND reference.

I hear you, I do. But that's not how identical works. You can't say it's identical minus another chord and a rhythm change. It would be identical if it didn't have that chord and was played the same way but it's not. We're going in circles. I don't think the producer made the guitar sound similar because like I said there's no acoustic and baritone tracks behind it. It's a guitar with distortion and if we're going to start saying everytime the band wants distortion they're referencing another song it would be insane.

We'll never know if it was intentional or not to do a similar attack, format as HAND but those chords in that order aren't exactly the first time ever used. It's what you do with them that counts and the rhythm is different enough from HAND for me, it's the way it starts and comes back in I have the problem with.