John Shanks article - Some Jovi Related

The difference is Bob Rock is not a Yes Man. He will challenge Jon's choices and push him. If you seen any of the Metallica footage with Bob, they were the biggest metal band in the world and Bob would challenge them all the time. That, in my opinion is what a good producer does. Your job as a producer is pointless if you just agree with your boss all the time, which is, in my opinion, exactly what Shanks does. I guess that's what Jon needs/wants right now. Fair enough, but it leads to the same old stuff time and time again. If Jon's voice wasn't an issue, I can't help but think that he would have moved on from Shanks a long time ago. At this point it's just comfortable for Jon.

In some ways I think it was the same thing with Richie, he would push Jon and question his decisions. Jon got to the point where he prefers to have Phil and Shanks who are basically paid to do what he wants them to do instead.

Is Bob Rock still like that, though? There's a lot to be said for everyone acting like if it had Bob, the songs would be better and I still think it's far more nuanced than that. I don't want to keep dunking on RSO but to say he'll butt heads and challenge quality and we wound up with a...sigh...Reggae mix of Good Times.

Bob Rock when he was top of his game, competely agree.

I don't think your style of production changes, I don't think Bob's personality changes. The RSO record is what it was. It was recorded over the space of god knows how many years, it was finished, then it wasn't, then it was, then they were back in the studio again, then it seemed like Ori and Richie were breaking up so they had to rush release the album. I don't think Bob can be blamed for any of that, that's all on Richie, as is proven when the same thing is happening with his solo record now. Ori is now on her 4th record since then or something. It was disjointed because of Richie. It always felt like Bob was just treating it as though he was helping a friend out between jobs. I can imagine Richie is probably not the easiest to work with in the studio. He needs a Jon or a Bob to reign him in and get him to focus.

Bob has produced numerous other records since then that haven't taken as long, including as someone mentioned the Paul Rodgers album which is excellent. I know Bob's track record has been hit and miss over the recent years, but you can only be as good as whatever band you are working with at the end of the day. He's records have mostly had a pretty good sound to them.

When Bob Rock went to war with Metallica, they were not the biggest metal band in the world. But yes, he pushed them hard and helped them to commercial success. It is worth remembering that there is a massive chunk of the Metallica fanbase that rues the direction the band went in when driven by Bob Rock.

Another important point is that Metallica were the ones balancing the relationship they had with Bob Rock. That antagonism was both ways and is just not something Jon would engage at this stage or I doubt even back then. Of all the major records Rock has produced, the least known about is KTF. If Rock was hired he would be as a yes man or not be hired at all.

It is also interesting that as you follow Metallica through the 90s and into SKOM and St Anger, Rock increasingly did become a yes man. St Anger shows this because there are decisions on that album that could only be be undertaken by a producer bowing to the band.

That said, Rock has a cleaner sound and knows how to maximize rock music even when little is there. I would take him over Shanks any day, even as a yes man. There is also no doubt in my mind that Metallica has only sounded really good on record when Bob Rock was producer. Even so, I push back that he is an uncompromising visionary. I think he will turn yes man pretty easily and indeed has done in the past.

KTF is lesser known than the Simple Plan record he did? Or the MC94 album which got the band fired from their multi million dollar contract?

It's pretty obvious that he was hoping he could joing the band as a permanent member at the time. That's not when you challenge them all the time, that's when you try to be their friend. It didn't work out that way!

Definitely some good points. I'd love the RSO timeline. Yeah it was scattered but it felt like once Bob came on board, the timeline sped up. There was such a long period it was under the control of Michael Bearden. I don't thiiiiink any of the break up stuff happened until right AFTER it was released.

"but you can only be as good as whatever band you are working with at the end of the day" brings it all home. Like it's been said, I don't think Jon wants to be challenged. Shanks is his vocal safety net for better or worse. Would the song quality improve if his voice was better, maybe/maybe not.

I meant least known about in terms of the recording process. It is not a well documented production. Again, from the major bands/records he did. I know a lot about his time with Motley, obviously with Metallica, and even some other bands. But he rarely goes in-depth on KTF in interviews, at least contemporary ones that I have seen. KTF and TD recording footage/information is what I am looking forward to in the doc. I expect to be sorely disappointed.

In an outtake from SKOM, the band mock him for wanting to become their bass player. He quite earnestly denies this, stating he is too old and out of shape. The final edit of the doc does make it look like he is simping for it but he was believable when denying it.

Between The Black Album and St Anger there was no one even close to them as far as metal bands go commercially.

You're missing the point of the producers job. It is not his job to make decisons, the final say will always go to the band, as it should. His job is to make suggestions, challenge their decisions, tell them when something isn't good enough, and Bob was 100% still doing that at this point. Basically his job is to get the best out of them possible. Ok St. Anger was seriously bad, but I think the band are as much to blame for that, that's the sound they were going for, but they were happy for Bob to take the fall.

You know, I'd completely forgot that he was originally on board as producer!

RIGHT?? I think back to how long the proejct was hyped and it's many incarnations and god I'd love an oral history of that time period.