Legendary - new single

Extremely patronizing.

On the wider point, I do think a new production team is needed. It is clear something has gone stale in the current setup. Whether it is Shanks or not, changing it up could have a positive impact.

HAHAHA I mean fair. I don't want to defend the guy but listening to people bitch for nearing on twenty years about the dude, He's doing what Jon wants and taking all the brunt for it. I think his guitar playing could fit the band a hell of a lot better if the band wasn't forced to sound like it does.

Totally, I wasn't including it because we were talking about the finally released version as an album whole. It just riles me up people keep making the point he was all over that record when he really wasn't.

To be fair, Shank's influence (and that of Richie's absence) have been elevated to a quasi mythological status; implying that if Jon fired Shanks, Richie came back with Bob Rock, we'd get New Jersey 2.0.

We wouldn't?

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Oh totally. Firing Shanks and getting Bob Rock will fix Jon's inabilities to write like he used to, the planets will align and a beam of light will emit from the sky. The prohecy is complete and your favourite "meh" song you swear would do well on radio will revitalize the world.

No, but general public is not really aware of the counterfactuals and how much way of doing a record (especially introducing the band in the process and not just recording in the end) influences the sound, perception and their own judgement in the end. Give Shanks with his laptop beats and video calls to Jon of 2012 way of working on These Days and you would have a collection of subpar crap with few solid songs, that elevate themselves above the production choices (same as anything in Shanks era, except 2020 where his production is finally a positive).

Even more extreme, take KTF just single, title track. That song took a lot of collective work to materialize (it's not guitar but keyboard chords driven, while melodic structure is completely driven by Hugh's line backed by Tico's dynamic drumming, thus bearing similarity to Sympathy for the Devil). In the end, it's fresh due to combination of things. It's not well "produced" because Bob Rock applied compression more optimal or put guitars to the left, that's nonsense. But if you would "produce" this song by Shanks WAN criteria, he would use pre-downloaded Logic beat, waited for lyrics (and/or contributed some lyrics) from Jon, plug in basic chords (KTF does have basic chords, it's not about that) and be done with it. Or worse, he would present basic beat and some plugin key patterns to Jon (and Richie), they would nod and then the average subpar "magic" would happen. Tico would probably come last week to record what was laid out for him in MIDI. It would be utter dissapointment, same as many potential destroyed classic Jovi songs by Shanks. Would it be different if somebody else was here? Maybe, maybe not, but Shanks is here, so I don't get this reasoning he can't be blamed alongside with Jon when his way of working is obviously subpar for iconic rock band.

You...built a scenario in your head to get mad at production for though? This isn't based on anything that actually happened, just on how you think it would go down and therefore it's the worst.

Look, we know how every member of the band is capable of playing. Shanks on BB had actually good playing on Fingerprints, Who would you die for and Teardrop. The band is completely capable of sounding a different way. Who is more likely to be standing in their way, the guy being paid to say yes or the guy doing the paying? When Phil wanted a rockier solo for Beautiful Drug, who stood in the way of it getting out? I think that's the point people are rushing past. Of course he can be blamed for the sound of the band but if it's the sound the guy at the top wants...

It's the job of producer to produce the record. Yes, Jon pays, as well as any other band in the world. And yes, dynamics get really asymmetrical whenever an iconic band is in play vs. producer. All you now wrote is true, but it doesn't challenge any of what I implied. You have direct quotes by Shanks himself about his way of working for WAN, you posted the link in fact few days ago. Counterfactuals are hard and speculative by nature, but yes, I'm very much arguing that Shanks way of working (comfortable, putting load on himself, not challenging Jon or the band in most situations) is one of the key reasons why newer albums are so bland. IMO, talent levels of songs on House album and 2020 are higher than Bounce or Crush in general, but whole approach is lazy, uninspiring and reeks of Shanks sitting with his laptop and moving plugin samples around.

Is it how Jon wants? Yes, at the end of the end. But does Jon want subpar produced albums? No, he just relies too much on Shanks in every other way, who delivers as his wingman, his comfort, his guitar player, his co-songwriter, but he does not deliver as a producer. As a producer, to stylize it, he should be pushing and fighting for his vision, and not be happy and in awe that he gets to work for Jovi, or even, to be a prominent and important member as it in the last decade.

Also, to add, Shanks playing has absolutely nothing to do with his producing. He is a capable guitarist and talented songwriter. But in the context of band Bon Jovi, he is too involved to be a good producer, so much that his way of doing things is one of key reasons for a series of worst produced albums in Jovi's discography

starting the album with those annoying ooooo's on track 1, and then having Unbroken and Limitless at tracks 2 and 3 ain't gonna help the vibe imo. Releasing Luv Can as a stand alone single and forget the rest would help the vibe.