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  #261  
Old Today, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by bonjovi_cro View Post
Cmon you don't believe that. Born to follow is harmony wise copycat, sure, but it doesn't have absolutely anything of vintage Jovi chorus sound and attitude. Can you imagine chorus of Born to Follow in any version sung as demo by Jon in 1988 as New Jersey acoustic basement outtake? Surely not. Well I can for Living Proof, it has that same vibe and feel. Rest of the song less, especially as its evidently copying HAND verses and lyrics are hit and miss outside of chorus. Still, song is good, but chorus is fantastic.
Stop telling people what they think because it doesn't align with what you think please....

It's a good chorus, I agree with you. But I hear better choruses all the time. To me "vintage" Bon Jovi chorus' are Bad Name, Prayer, Bad Medicine, Born To be My Baby, Runaway, It's My Life, etc etc. While good, Living Proof is nothing like those to my ears...
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  #262  
Old Today, 10:12 PM
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Sorry guys but people just like to find any justification when they simply like the song.

Isn't it just enough to like it?

I don't care if it is a rock song. I'm bit allergic to those "this is the best song since /whatever album/" statements appearing here. I think they've released quite a few rock songs over the last albums. Given what I've learnt currently a rock song for people here is, Beautiful Drug is it too. It just sucks (sorry, I hate that song). Is Let It Rain a rock song? I'm sure it is. It just doesn't have a superchatchy chorus so it doesn't fall into the "the best since" category.

Living Proof has a vintage Bon Jovi chorus. It's catchy, it's got drive, it works. Actually, these are pop atributes, aren't they?
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  #263  
Old Today, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Thinny View Post
Stop telling people what they think because it doesn't align with what you think please....

It's a good chorus, I agree with you. But I hear better choruses all the time. To me "vintage" Bon Jovi chorus' are Bad Name, Prayer, Bad Medicine, Born To be My Baby, Runaway, It's My Life, etc etc. While good, Living Proof is nothing like those to my ears...
No reason to be rude. I apologize as there should have been a question mark on that, I thought it's a matter of speech. Like, "I can't believe you really believe that", not "telling" you what you really think.

But to be completely honest, I do think you're just being contrariran to what is now mass fanbase opinion (for whatever reason, it's not my business and I don't really care), and you don't really think that Born to Follow chorus is more "vintage" than Living Proof's.

If you really believe that, fair enough, that's your opinion, which I accept and then consequently I'm highly critical of. The same chords and same melodic parts of vocal line does not constitute the same legacy chorus and vibe. It's a copycat pattern that resulted in tired, washed up, no hook chorus that translates into why is modern Jovi mostly boring slugfest to rock fans.

While Living Proof chorus is basically the opposite. It is evocative of Jovi 80's choruses in ways dynamics are done, the attitude that transpires (completely opposite of Born to Follow, Limitless, BWC, This house, etc and in modern ways, more akin to Bounce for example) and for many people it's that "sound" or attitude, that's not easily explained in words. I repeat, that's my view, but also view of most fans (and some non fans, if you can believe me) of the band that got to hear it in last couple of days.

And on a personal note of mine, just because housewives and casual fans like it, doesn't mean I have the need to immediately find a weakness to it, or to try and generalize and find reasons why its "not so great". Perhaps others do, perhaps not, but I'm here arguing against the notion that every kind of hype is empty or baseless.
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  #264  
Old Today, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Johny View Post
Sorry guys but people just like to find any justification when they simply like the song.

Isn't it just enough to like it?

I don't care if it is a rock song. I'm bit allergic to those "this is the best song since /whatever album/" statements appearing here. I think they've released quite a few rock songs over the last albums. Given what I've learnt currently a rock song for people here is, Beautiful Drug is it too. It just sucks (sorry, I hate that song). Is Let It Rain a rock song? I'm sure it is. It just doesn't have a superchatchy chorus so it doesn't fall into the "the best since" category.

Living Proof has a vintage Bon Jovi chorus. It's catchy, it's got drive, it works. Actually, these are pop atributes, aren't they?
While I can understand your point of view, no it's not "just enough to like it". It's not fair after what is basically a decade of pure negativity here, mine included, to argue that positivity cannot be defended on public forum. What then, only arguments why songs are shit, Jon is a prick, and band is way past it and should retire are welcomed?

BTW, yes, I completely agree with the last part of your argument. Those are in fact pop attributes. Living Proof is a really good pop song in my opinion, with retro sound and attitude evocative of vintage Jovi. It's not more "rocking" than several recent songs. But it's "better" in a way that there is an honest, rebellious attitude in that chorus, that reminds me personally of young band's resolve, but with genuine, old age perspective that is here and now. This was in my eyes sorely missed, even though whole song is not completely immersed in it.
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  #265  
Old Today, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by bonjovi_cro View Post
No reason to be rude. I apologize as there should have been a question mark on that, I thought it's a matter of speech. Like, "I can't believe you really believe that", not "telling" you what you really think.

But to be completely honest, I do think you're just being contrariran to what is now mass fanbase opinion (for whatever reason, it's not my business and I don't really care), and you don't really think that Born to Follow chorus is more "vintage" than Living Proof's.
So you apologise and then go and do exactly the same thing again. You clearly have a problem when people don't agree with everything you say. If you are basically gonna call me a liar for having an opinion that's differenet to yours then there's little point in a conversation here...

I like Living Proof. I really do. I think it's one of the better tracks from the last 10 to 15 years. Do I think it's a good as vintage Bon Jovi. Not even close. Do I think there are other tracks in the last 15 years that are closer, or as close, to vintage Bon Jovi? Yes, absolutely...
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  #266  
Old Today, 11:04 PM
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I like Living Proof. It is the best song from the Bon Jovi camp - including former members - this year. Still only a mid song overall, but it is a direction I generally like. Less wall of sound, but still there is some parts.

Why can no-one in Bon Jovi world - including former members - player guitar solos properly anymore? What is there in Living Proof fits the song, but Phil X can be an interesting player, so why not add another 20 seconds to the play time and tell him to come up with a killer solo? I can only imagine what peak Richie would do with this.
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  #267  
Old Today, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Thinny View Post

I like Living Proof. I really do. I think it's one of the better tracks from the last 10 to 15 years. Do I think it's a good as vintage Bon Jovi. Not even close. Do I think there are other tracks in the last 15 years that are closer, or as close, to vintage Bon Jovi? Yes, absolutely...
Agreed. Hard disagree on Born to Follow.
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  #268  
Old Today, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Thinny View Post
So you apologise and then go and do exactly the same thing again. You clearly have a problem when people don't agree with everything you say. If you are basically gonna call me a liar for having an opinion that's differenet to yours then there's little point in a conversation here...

I like Living Proof. I really do. I think it's one of the better tracks from the last 10 to 15 years. Do I think it's a good as vintage Bon Jovi. Not even close. Do I think there are other tracks in the last 15 years that are closer, or as close, to vintage Bon Jovi? Yes, absolutely...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is a severe, hard difference between telling to people what they think versus expressing opinion on what they think or what their stance is. I'm not preaching or teaching you about your opinion, I'm arguing with and subsequently against what I think your stance is.

Either way, I have no personal grudge, I'd rather de-escalate this. It's not that I have problem with you not agreeing with me, it's trying to make sure that my argument is clear and precise because I care, and its rather not easy to translate every nuance in online board.

Bottom line, regardless of previous discussion, I have this personal hype not with the song, but with this chorus that to me is evocative of (again, to me) Jovi original sound and attitude. I'd like more of that. I recognize that in many songs, but mostly older ones.

I dislike "fake" attitude like Complicated, but here I sense something organic. I think this "sense" is shared with wider fanbase and this is intrinsic reason why it's so much liked. This is just my take and perspective, though, I hope it's more clear now. But I do not hope in any way that you are now "convinced" and change your opinion, just that my shared opinion is more understandable and grounded, if that makes sense
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Last edited by bonjovi_cro; Today at 11:28 PM..
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  #269  
Old Today, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bonjovi_cro View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is a severe, hard difference between telling to people what they think versus expressing opinion on what they think or what their stance is. I'm not preaching or teaching you about your opinion, I'm arguing with and subsequently against what I think your stance is.

Either way, I have no personal grudge, I'd rather de-escalate this. It's not that I have problem with you not agreeing with me, it's trying to make sure that my argument is clear and precise because I care, and its rather not easy to translate every nuance in online board.

Bottom line, regardless of previous discussion, I have this personal hype not with the song, but with this chorus that to me is evocative of (again, to me) Jovi original sound and attitude. I'd like more of that. I recognize that in many songs, but mostly older ones.

I dislike "fake" attitude like Complicated, but here I sense something organic. I think this "sense" is shared with wider fanbase and this is intrinsic reason why it's so much liked. This is just my take and perspective, though, I hope it's more clear now. But I do not hope in any way that you are now "convinced" and change your opinion, just that my shared opinion is more understandable and grounded, if that makes sense
I think maybe there is a language barrier thing going on here, so it's all good. Let's just forget it and move on.
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