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  #871  
Old 05-01-2021, 08:58 PM
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But if that were true then surely nowadays people would've pointed out the similarities in the older songs as well?

These Days sounds like the mid-nineties but is a mix of various influences as much as Crush is a mix of what was popular late nineties. But the rockers on Bounce, in a nutshell, sound pretty much like Creed meets Linkin Park. Instead of copying the sound of an era they've started copying the sound of the 3 most popular bands.

I think this is why it's not as easy to come up with as many similar songs for the first 6 records as it is for everything that's followed since. Sure, it's happened in the past as well. Last Man Standing is a copy of Turn The Page as much as Bitter Wine is a copy of Shooting Star. Never Say Goodbye is a Southside Johnny song. Yes, Hearts Breaking Even is essentially a rewrite of Aerosmith's Cryin' but you can't sing the melody of Cryin' over Hearts Breakin' Even like you can sing It's My Life over and over and over again on close to 10 songs that've followed that one. With 2020 you can almost song for song say what "inspired" Jon to come up with this stuff. You just can't do the same with the older records.

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The songs post 2000 got lazier, yeah. It's gotten worse, I'm not denying any of that but I still think they were called out on it less in the first six records for trend-chasing without social media. They did it in a more organic way but it's still the same idea.

But it's also like....who is listening to the album tracks if the singles are bombing? They should have gotten a world of hell for re-writing How Far We've Come in Beautiful World but no one got far enough in the album to even care. Singles, I totally get, but album cuts are a strange place to rip off hit songs.
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  #872  
Old 05-01-2021, 10:56 PM
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They did it in a more organic way but it's still the same idea.
I don't think so. I see it differently and I'll go into it a little bit deeper by bringing in other examples. Mind you, I'm an art teacher so I'll take examples close to my profession. So let's take the painters from the nineteenth century.

Vincent Van Gogh went to Paris to find out what was new and upcoming. Not because he wanted to sell stuff, but wanted to change and get better at what he was capable of. Van Gogh had always been unsuccesful. Excentric, odd and just plain rude. Art always went first and it never worked in his advantage. His creative drive went before anything else. The work Van Gogh has made has always been inspired by what was popular in Paris. I don't intened to compare Jon Bon Jovi to van Gogh as the complicated backstory to van Gogh is by no means similar to the simplicity of Bon Jovi's creative path. But there are other similiarities.

The way Destination Anywhere and bits and pieces of Crush were put together was done in the same way a painter like Van Gogh traveled to Paris and capture that creative outburst. It's why I think Destination Anywhere is just ao much better than anything that came after. By no means is every song an instant classic or utterly fantastic. But the songs do seem to come from an honest place. Jon just happened to be in London and seemed to be immersing himself in what was on the radio and popular out there. It's just so different from the American charts at that time. After Grunge, America no longer dictated what was on the radio and Jon happened to be living in the epicenter. Just listen to everything that was big in the UK charts back then that had any longevity to it. Garbage, Bush, Oasis, Radiohead, The Smashing Pumpkins. It's all there but the album doesn't sound like any of these bands in particular. It's just a blend of all these influences.

So every artist steals. But a true artist changes it to something to capture his own vision. Has a drive to create something unique. To change it into something new. Michael Jackson was fantastic at this. By no means original, but capable of taking all influences of what was then popular and changing it into his own thing, creating something new altogether. For 2 decades straight he did what most artists struggle with in just one song. Once Michael Jackson started stealing music his career went down the drain. Very much the same way Bon Jovi's career lost steam. Bon Jovi went from capturing a bit of the spirit of Britpop to full on copying several songs. Instead of continuing down a path of just trying to make good music they started copying as being influenced wasn't good enough. Their drive wasn't to create music they believed in, their drive became to be the biggest.

So the biggest artists weren't used as influences. The biggest artists were copied. The same drumbeats, the same guitar sounds, the same chord progrssions and the same dumbed down music that became so popular in the early zero's. And when it didn't work, the melodies were then copied as well. Have A Nice Day did some things right compared to Bounce, but also a lot of things wrong. They didn't go to work like artists, they went to work to sell a product. They went from being Spielberg to being Michael Bay. First Transformers wasn't good enough? Let's increase the parts people like. Keep the things people didn't like very much the same, but make sure we'll add more explosions. More silly jokes. More flashy cars. More, more more! But absolutely no substance.

In order to be the biggest you've got to have a story to tell. Michael Bay has nothing to tell. What he offers is more of the same. The same way Bon Jovi does. But Bon Jovi has a second thing to worry about; what they're doing now has been done before. So instead of hearing nowadays pop-music you're essentially hearing the same song, but re-written with parts of the same melody.

So no, I don't think it's the same. I think what they're doing now is different from incorporating a various amount of influences. Nowadays due to the the constant overkill of adding outside influences they're so out of touch with nowadays music in general that it's hard to find out what a Bon Jovi song would sound like nowadays. Bon Jovi were never the most original act but Bon Jovi were also a band easy to identify. I remember when Real Life hit the radio long before the internet gave out samples. You just knew it was Bon Jovi, even when Jon wasn't singing. Compare this to stuff from the Circle. What About Now. This House Is Not For Sale. Take away Jon's voice and you're left with something completely generic and unidentifyable.

I can understand the band not wanting to sound the same. I don't mind the change in sound if the songs are there. These Days doesn't sound like New Jersey, Crush doesn't sound like These Days. These are good steps. But unlike with the first 2, since Crush, the songs just aren't there anymore.

With every subsequent release they're stripped further from their own identity and I don't think the band has ever played a song together in the past 10 years they just enjoyed playing. They're going through the motions. The band sounds tired of just playing what is ultimately Bon Jovi light. "Oh, here's that thing that other artist did before". "Oh here's that intro done by that other artist". The lack of own input is what's halted the creative output and what's ultimately caused Jon's river to run dry.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan
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  #873  
Old 05-02-2021, 04:05 AM
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  #874  
Old 05-03-2021, 10:56 PM
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Have a Nice Day is a record that has always made me uncomfortable. It is such a pastiche and although the band continued to copy arguably to a greater extent on future records, I think HAND was the first time it was really blatent to me.

I find the whole record and every record since almost unlistenable save for the odd song on each.
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  #875  
Old 05-04-2021, 08:37 AM
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Have a Nice Day is a record that has always made me uncomfortable. It is such a pastiche and although the band continued to copy arguably to a greater extent on future records, I think HAND was the first time it was really blatent to me.

I find the whole record and every record since almost unlistenable save for the odd song on each.

When crush came out I was surprised at the change of sound but ended up liking a majority of it but HAND was the first album that I didnít like when it was released and still donít.
Jon and Richie talked about how there were no ballads and this was a great rock n roll album but it was anything but a rock n roll album.
Few decent tracks but the album but itís just so badly produced and the songs are so boring.


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  #876  
Old 05-04-2021, 10:11 PM
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Jon and Richie talked about how there were no ballads
Don't think they ever said that. They said that there were no "love songs".
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  #877  
Old 05-05-2021, 08:31 AM
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Don't think they ever said that. They said that there were no "love songs".

Same thing kind of.


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  #878  
Old 05-05-2021, 11:53 AM
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Same thing kind of.
Not really. There are definitely ballads on Have A Nice Day but none of them are Love Songs.
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  #879  
Old 05-05-2021, 12:38 PM
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Wildflower is a love song, no?
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  #880  
Old 05-05-2021, 01:16 PM
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Wildflower is a love song, no?
Yeah you're right I guess. I always forget about that song. I was thinking of Bells Of Freedom, I Am, Welcome To Wherever You Are.

I guess I Am isn't technically a ballad but it feels like one to me for some reason.

Maybe their comments were made before Wildflower was added, as it wasn't on the original track listing.
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