[Rdkopper]

Originally Posted by bonjovi90

No, I'm with you on this one. I've heard several rumours that Jon and Richie had artistical differences throughout The Circle era since the direction Jon chose sound wise wasn't what Richie had envisioned (he wanted to get back to a more rocking overall sound like they had in the 80's).
It might've very well been that Richie just didn't care too much about What About Now or didn't show up the day of recording and Phil X just stepped in.

Lets say all that was true. Why cut off Dave and Tico too? Why not just Jon? Look, bands disagree all the time like a marriage but that's not a reason to walk off... It's much deeper as Jon most recently insinuated on Howard...

[steel_horse75]

Originally Posted by Rdkopper

Jon doesn't have much left in him and I really don't think Bon Jovi would be any different with or without Richie at this point...

I still think Jon is a great writer and comes up with some good lines and lyrics every so often but it's just not enough... He's writing about the same things over and over. The same production doesn't help differentiate any of it either...He's so far removed, both mentally and talent wise, from his past self... Metallica went and did an old school album... I think they did a phenomenal job... Jon just doesn't have it in him to do that...

He's only touring 1 month at a time, 3 to 4 times a year now most likely due to physical / vocal issue...

He shows more passion for everything else in his life besides music... I think I've seen more promo pics for this new wine he's selling then the entire THINFS album release...

Jon's old and got old quick... He's 56...and Richie is a few years older... They are past the point of radio, they are past the point of new fans, and they are officially nostalgic...

Richie's return would just be a fan thing... It wouldn't help anything... The new music would be the same, the touring would be the same, and it would just cost Jon more money...



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Spot on that man!

[Alphavictim]

Originally Posted by Captain_jovi

What's always made me wonder is how Richie was all over The Circle, co-writing every single song and you can hear his playing/writing style throughout yet they needed a studio guitar player for What Do Ya Got. I don't know if I believe his hold on the band was slipping if he's that much of a presence on an album, and then not be used for a band track a year or so later, you know?

And The Circle was only one album before What About Now which didn't have much Richie at all so I see that viewpoint from 2011 forward but he was a big big big part of the 2005 - 2010 albums.

Wasn't WDYG? a leftover from the Circle sessions anyway? Maybe they just overdubbed some additional leads and the rest of the band wasn't even in the studio again for that one. Then again, different producer - not sure if the band (or label) owned the master tapes and could just readily switch them between studios and producers.

WAN didn't have much Richie on it because he was doing Aftermath right around that time and probably didn't have too many ideas to present to the band at that point, so I don't see that as an indication of him becoming less of a presence either.

Originally Posted by bonjovi90

No, I'm with you on this one. I've heard several rumours that Jon and Richie had artistical differences throughout The Circle era since the direction Jon chose sound wise wasn't what Richie had envisioned (he wanted to get back to a more rocking overall sound like they had in the 80's).
It might've very well been that Richie just didn't care too much about What About Now or didn't show up the day of recording and Phil X just stepped in.

I seriously doubt that. None of the stuff Richie did on his own, safe for Rosie and Father Time, ever sounded like BJ's 80s phase either.

Gotta agree that The Circle doesn't sound overtly Richie, though. Bullet sounds like Bounce-era Richie, but the bluesy fills stuff, which he did on, say, You Had Me From Hello, the last solo original he released, IBTFY, all these tracks, that's nowhere to be found, just some arpeggiated stuff.

[Captain_jovi]

Originally Posted by Alphavictim

Wasn't WDYG? a leftover from the Circle sessions anyway? Maybe they just overdubbed some additional leads and the rest of the band wasn't even in the studio again for that one. Then again, different producer - not sure if the band (or label) owned the master tapes and could just readily switch them between studios and producers.

WAN didn't have much Richie on it because he was doing Aftermath right around that time and probably didn't have too many ideas to present to the band at that point, so I don't see that as an indication of him becoming less of a presence either.

.

I mean it could have been the case of them giving it to a producer to do but why Howard Benson, a pretty in demand producer, and not just a random producer. Why such a detachment that the band wasn't involved while the label demanded overdubs be needed. Something just doesn't feel right about that. Richie didn't play on Wildflower off HAND and it's tough for that to be because of Shanks because he didn't produce that one either. Dynamic shift or not, Richie's involvement started changing earlier on and I don't know if I can put that on Shanks.

[Alphavictim]

Well his major breakdown with the AA stint and all was during the LH tour, wasn't it? The accoustic IML performance with the All American Rejects doing additional instrumentation and Richie being all drunk was around that time unless I'm mistaken. So around HAND does sound about right for initial seeds of problems. I know his father died and his marriage ended on the HAND tour, but that might have just worsened it. We don't know his drinking habits from before.

[Captain_jovi]

Originally Posted by Alphavictim

Well his major breakdown with the AA stint and all was during the LH tour, wasn't it? The accoustic IML performance with the All American Rejects doing additional instrumentation and Richie being all drunk was around that time unless I'm mistaken. So around HAND does sound about right for initial seeds of problems. I know his father died and his marriage ended on the HAND tour, but that might have just worsened it. We don't know his drinking habits from before.

The AA stint and breakdown would have been the promo of LH. If I recall he got out of rehab the day before the Lost Highway video shoot so we're looking at summer of 2007. The 4 newer tracks for HAND would have been recorded between November of 2004 and September of 2005.

Anyway, I don't know. If him not playing on a track was for drinking problems or not, just making the point that him not being on band tracks started around that time frame if we're not including Jon solo tracks being b-sides/box set songs. (For all we know. There could be tracks here and there that we just don't realize it's not him prior, I just don't think so).

[Dicanio]

Originally Posted by bjcrazycpa

I think I’m the only one that didn’t listen to the leaked version!


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And me, I cant believe I havent heard it yet

[Alphavictim]

Originally Posted by Captain_jovi

Anyway, I don't know. If him not playing on a track was for drinking problems or not, just making the point that him not being on band tracks started around that time frame if we're not including Jon solo tracks being b-sides/box set songs. (For all we know. There could be tracks here and there that we just don't realize it's not him prior, I just don't think so).

That really started during the Crush era, or even the Destination Anywhere era - Crush had repurposed JBJ solo tracks, and Drive was a band track repurposed for JBJ solo.

[Captain_jovi]

That's what I meant by Jon solo tracks re-purposed as Crush B-sides and box set songs. After that it was conceivably Richie on every album song with a guitar going forward until HAND, and the biggest consensus is that Jon and Shanks were together at the hip but that theory doesn't hold water on songs Shanks didn't produce. The wedge driven couldn't have taken effect that early on enough to make Richie say "I'm not showing up to these recording sessions" hence my confusion.

[Becky]

I’ve only listened to the leaked track once, when it aired during the interview with Howard Stern.