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  #11  
Old 12-16-2024, 10:20 PM
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You mean for tours where they were promoting the albums that he was part of it. Add to that the songs like Lost Highway, Whole Lot Of Leavin', etc that nobody cares about...Again, it's just his way of stroking his ego and his self-importance....



Doc McGhee was FAR more important to the bands legacy than Shanks, in my opinion, but I'm sure he wouldn't go around claiming to be part of it. Why would he? It would make him look silly....



I did say in my original post that the quote could have been taken out of context....
Although nothing I've read leads me to believe that it was...
Doc McGhee, the showman producer who looks dramatically nothing like he used to with the most Hollywood smile and giver of pretty egotistical interviews being painted in a humble light is such a stretch though. It probably is not that far to find old interviews of him taking a lot of, rightful, credit for building that band up.

JS isn't saying he was the savior of the band or painting himself in a light any bigger than the fact that he's been there helping steer the ship for 20 years. My point is people are really latching onto something they are building in their heads out of sheer dislike for the state of the band instead of pointing a figure at the guy requestiing it and signing the cheque.

I'm an hour in and the dude seems to genuinely care about what he does and crafting songs. It's time for a big change in the band organization and freshen it up but I don't think either side is pumping out product to rake in money, I think they honestly like what they're doing and have fallen into a safety place that takes a radical change 10% of the time.
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  #12  
Old 12-16-2024, 10:23 PM
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watched it...

ITs a bit weird he downplays his bj connection and always focus more on other bands he produced which may be cooler...i mean after all these albums i guess he d mention more stories...

he talked about my first guitar, jbj was was going for a stones vibe but shanks(!!!) conviced him to go to a who, more dramatic approach...

Imho John Shanks is Not a good producer.he may be a good friend to jon by now but thats another thing. Being a yes man and playing a big role into destroying a band, pushing away a key member in order to be on that stage is totaly wrong. even in the doc shanks had a weird smile while he talked about Richie...unfortunately he made albums easier for them and was there for jon with his vocal issues but he was also the excuse for the band to become jons solo project and make Richie fully replacable...

it all comes to respect in the end..would he played Eddie's missing parts or Linsday buckinghams? Jon opened the door and he happily entered..
Some of these issues come out as very contradictory. He's a yes man who does whatever Jon wants but also challenged Jon's original vision of My First Guitar and shaped into something totally different.

Bobby played the solo on a song Shanks didn't produce on HAND, I've always assumed to rush the new songs out and get them in on time. These. Problems. Started. Earlier. Jon's ego isn't new and wasnt born in 2004.
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  #13  
Old 12-16-2024, 11:32 PM
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Doc McGhee, the showman producer who looks dramatically nothing like he used to with the most Hollywood smile and giver of pretty egotistical interviews being painted in a humble light is such a stretch though.
Well, yeah, that was kinda the point...

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It probably is not that far to find old interviews of him taking a lot of, rightful, credit for building that band up.
He has every right to take some credit for building the band up, because he was a huge part of that from the beginning and at their peak. He always said that he knew Jon was going to be a star and he wanted to be the one to make that happen. He saw dollar signs for sure, but I don't remember him ever taking any credit for anything other than that. Truth is, if it wasn't for Doc the band almost certainly would not have been anywhere near as big as they were in the 80s.

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My point is people are really latching onto something they are building in their heads out of sheer dislike for the state of the band instead of pointing a figure at the guy requestiing it and signing the cheque.
To be fair to me, it has zero to do with that. it's more of a sheer dislike of the person, rather than the state of the band...

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it all comes to respect in the end..would he played Eddie's missing parts or Linsday buckinghams? Jon opened the door and he happily entered..
10000% this.

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Bobby played the solo on a song Shanks didn't produce on HAND, I've always assumed to rush the new songs out and get them in on time.
I know you've brought this up before, but this wasn't neccesarily the same. It's speculation of course..but maybe Richie said that Bobby should take that solo. He and Bobby always seemed to have a good relationship. Bobby used to take solos for some songs live, so it's not a stretch to have him play a solo on the album.

Shanks wasn't in the band at the time and played the solo without Richie's knowledge then Richie was then told he wasn't needed for that track.

Surely you can see how that's potentially a world of difference.
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  #14  
Old 12-17-2024, 12:59 AM
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I know you've brought this up before, but this wasn't neccesarily the same. It's speculation of course..but maybe Richie said that Bobby should take that solo. He and Bobby always seemed to have a good relationship. Bobby used to take solos for some songs live, so it's not a stretch to have him play a solo on the album.

Shanks wasn't in the band at the time and played the solo without Richie's knowledge then Richie was then told he wasn't needed for that track.

Surely you can see how that's potentially a world of difference.
It's different there but there's a clear usage of "benefit of the doubt" to support one theory but erase it completely on the other.

My point wasn't so much that they are similar incidences, it's that post 2000, the lines of what was Jon and what was band blurred significantly and I don't completely agree it was Shanks's doing.

I'm a bit muddy about the recording of the solo without his knowledge, which was this for, The Fighter? It's a lot of messy stuff but from RS's recollection he thought he could make it better, they were happy how it was and he told them to have at it. IF that's what we're talking about, and it honestly might not be, it's a hell of a lot closer to the Wildflower situation that you're proposing happened. Don't get me wrong, a lot of stuff went down with the WAN stuff I have no problem throwing Jon down a well on.

"I know you've brought this up before, but this wasn't neccesarily the same. It's speculation of course..but maybe Richie said that Bobby should take that solo. He and Bobby always seemed to have a good relationship. Bobby used to take solos for some songs live, so it's not a stretch to have him play a solo on the album."

Sure it's not the first time Bobby has done a solo on a band related project but other than a b-side or box set song, I think it's very very very weird. It's speculation Richie was cool with it but it's also my speculation it diminished his role in the band.
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  #15  
Old 12-17-2024, 11:42 AM
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It's different there but there's a clear usage of
"benefit of the doubt" to support one theory but erase it completely on the other.
Huh? We know exactkly what happened with The Fighter - it's documented clearly in the documentary....there is no need for "benefit of the doubt" here..

Wildflower is purely speculation on BOTH sides. Again. that was my point...
All we know is that Richie has never mentioned being upset about Wildflower, but clearly was about The Fighter.

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My point wasn't so much that they are similar incidences, it's that post 2000, the lines of what was Jon and what was band blurred significantly and I don't completely agree it was Shanks's doing.
I don't think anyone has ever blamed Shanks fully. Jon is as much to blame for The Fighter stuff. In fact nikos post said exactly that...

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I'm a bit muddy about the recording of the solo without his knowledge, which was this for, The Fighter? It's a lot of messy stuff but from RS's recollection he thought he could make it better, they were happy how it was and he told them to have at it. IF that's what we're talking about, and it honestly might not be, it's a hell of a lot closer to the Wildflower situation that you're proposing happened. Don't get me wrong, a lot of stuff went down with the WAN stuff I have no problem throwing Jon down a well on.
I don't think there's anything muddy about it. Again, both sides get their say on this in the documentary. Shanks was the producer, not the guitar player. For him to start playing solos is out of order. That's on him (for oversteppinng his role as a producer) and Jon (for allowing it). It's clear that this was the moment that broke the band and Richie decided he was done. It could have and should have been handled differently.

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Sure it's not the first time Bobby has done a solo on a band related project but other than a b-side or box set song, I think it's very very very weird. It's speculation Richie was cool with it but it's also my speculation it diminished his role in the band.
Remember this was before Richie fell off the wagon and he has no solo commitments at the time. There's no reason to think that Richie wasn't fully present for the whole of Have A Nice Day, unlike What About Now. It's possible also that Wildflower was recorded on a day that Richie just wasn't available for whatever reason. Again, in 2005 I find it hard to believe that Jon would have gone ahead without Richie's knowledge. It just doesn't ring right for how things were in 2005. They were still a unit at that point unlile 2012.

Again, in my opinion it's very different to have your second guitar player play on a song than your co-producer. Shanks was already beginning to take over Richie's role as Jon's sideman and co-songwriter at that point. The difference to having Bobby play a solo is huge and I can't believe that you can't see that...
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  #16  
Old 12-17-2024, 05:29 PM
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Maybe Captain Jovi actually IS John Shanks?

Would present the chosen username in a completely different light.

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  #17  
Old 12-17-2024, 06:59 PM
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HAHAH it's the long con. I joined the board in 2001 to learn more about the band over a few years, offered my services using new found knowledge and bam!

Anyhoo, I agree with a lot of what was said, the rest is a difference of opinion and not worth hashing / re-hashing.
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  #18  
Old 12-17-2024, 11:21 PM
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I see nothing wrong about Shanks claiming he's part of the Bon Jovi legacy. Desmond Child, Bruce Fairbairn and Bob Rock are, too.
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Old 12-17-2024, 11:40 PM
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I see nothing wrong about Shanks claiming he's part of the Bon Jovi legacy. Desmond Child, Bruce Fairbairn and Bob Rock are, too.
Yet they don't go around claiming to be part of it in any interviews I've seen....nor do they need to...
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Old 12-18-2024, 02:42 AM
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Yet they don't go around claiming to be part of it in any interviews I've seen....nor do they need to...
Have you seen the interviews Desmond Child gives? The man isn't exactly humble lol
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