Jovitalk - Bon Jovi Fan Community
Home Register Members FAQ Mark Forums Read
 

New Studio Album - Forever

New Bon Jovi Releases


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #2231  
Old 07-09-2024, 03:46 PM
Thinny's Avatar
Thinny Thinny is offline
Senior Member
Jovi Freak
 
Join Date: 30 Jul 2013
Location: Leicester
Gender: male
Posts: 3,379
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by debrunho View Post
Yes, it is rather odd as he performed both Legendary and Who Says at the Music Cares thing and exceeded most expectations.
maybe if he had only done Legendary and Who Says at the Nashville show we would still be somewhat positive. I know i've said it before, but why did no one tell him that opening with Blood On Blood was a terrible idea. Once people heard that it was game over...he should have just played it safe at this point.
__________________
Thinny
Reply With Quote
  #2232  
Old 07-09-2024, 11:06 PM
Myguitar's Avatar
Myguitar Myguitar is offline
Senior Member
Born to be my Baby
 
Join Date: 10 Oct 2002
Location: Mordland!
Age: 43
Gender: male
Posts: 575
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bonjovi_cro View Post
And now this, 5 minutes ago, just got on my FB feed:

https://ultimateclassicrock.com/bon-...er-chart-fall/

Bon Jovi's new album Forever certainly didn't live up to its name on the charts.

As noted by Forbes, after debuting at No. 5 in its first week of release, the album fell all the way out of the Billboard 200 album sales chart the following week. Unless it returns in the future, Forever will be the first Bon Jovi studio album to only last one week in the Top 200.

EDIT: To be completely honest, when you sell 50k albums in the US and then the sales drop basically to zero, where every two years for past 20 years on average you get best selling tours and millions of people to see you, it's a bad effort from record company. Jon did more promo now than I remember. Streaming is bad. Why don't they market it as iconic rock band making comeback?
It's not a comeback when they've only been gone for 2 years since the last tour, and it's still "Jon Bon Jovi and Friends", and not Bon Jovi. Can't be advertised as a comeback without the original lineup or something like that.

Absolutely no one buys records anymore (I mean I do, but I don't know anyone else who does). I read this article and I feel the writers at Forbes, and journalists in general, are seemingly oblivious to the real world, but that's another topic. Music isn't what it used to be - 50k records in the first week and Forever made it into top 5???? Some 20-25 years ago that would've barely cracked the top 40.

Bon Jovi fans went out and got the record when it came out. That's what happens with every band now when it comes to physical CDs, even the new bands, but it's especially true for nostalgia acts. Music doesn't work like it did back in the day and no one, especially in the rock genre, has the staying power they once had. We're living in the TikTok culture where everything is a quick fad and the public moves onto the next thing.

Forever not staying on an irrelevant chart that's based on sales which no longer exist isn't important. That's why I'm kinda laughing at Forbes for even taking time to write about that. If the band or management expected sales and hits, they are a lot more naive than I could imagine. Of course, I don't think they expected that, but I am still surprised at the amount of promotion they did given that there's no tour planned to support it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bonjovi_cro View Post
In Europe, Bon Jovi is still iconic rock band, playing into nostalgic, vintage vibes for over a decade and a half at least. Did Jovi completely went out of that style in the US, or is the US completely different market now? I mean, I get that Jovi is not anymore No. 1 act, but to disappear from top200 after one week?
Top 200 doesn't really matter to anyone. You won't hear Jon talk about this, or any other artist, unless they hit #1 - then they have to go around bragging about it. If Jon's voice was on point and they went out for a tour, it would be an absolute monster and they'd be at the top of earning charts for sure, like they've always been.

Bon Jovi are absolute icons and greats in the US. I feel their reputation has grown in the last 10-15 years because of the overall increase in interest for 80s music and pop-culture. However, corporate radio that owns nearly all radio in the US only plays like 5 of their best known songs on rotation, and all of them from the 80s plus maybe It's My Life. Bon Jovi's 90s catalogue is invisible in the US. This is true of so many other rock artists too. I only hear the same 4-5 songs by Pink Floyd, Queen, AC/DC, Led Zep, or Rolling Stones on the radio, to name a few.

US public is very nostalgic and always prefers any band's earlier stuff. Want proof of this? That same Forbes article talking about Forever dropping out of the top 200 also added that the 2010 Greatest Hits compilation is still up there at like 160.

As for the album, I have listened to Forever a few times and I stick to my initial thoughts that it's the first album since HAND that I enjoy playing again. I think it's almost better than HAND simply because the bad tracks on HAND are REALLY bad, while stuff like Kiss the Bride and Walls of Jericho are meh.... but not God-awful. There are some elements I still dislike which take away from "authentic" Bon Jovi for me, but it's miles better than everything from Lost Highway onward.
__________________
Life-long Jovist, Purist, Critic

Bon Jovi Album Ranking: These Days, SWW, KTF, Jersey, Crush, Forever, 7800F, Bridges, HAND, Bon Jovi, Bounce, WAN, Circle, THINFS........... LH, 2020;

Last edited by Myguitar; 07-09-2024 at 11:10 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #2233  
Old 07-09-2024, 11:45 PM
Captain_jovi's Avatar
Captain_jovi Captain_jovi is offline
Moderator
This Post Feels Right
 
Join Date: 30 Jul 2002
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Age: 39
Gender: male
Posts: 14,231
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myguitar View Post
It's not a comeback when they've only been gone for 2 years since the last tour, and it's still "Jon Bon Jovi and Friends", and not Bon Jovi. Can't be advertised as a comeback without the original lineup or something like that.
Intersting! Four years since the last album does indeed qualify as a comeback, no one looks at time like "well they toured South America two years ago so they're still relevant where I live" I do get what you're saying but 2020 didn't reach a lot of people due to the pandemic (and the ones it did hit didn't get) .This album is a comeback, especially to the positive sound last heard in 2016 if not earlier, in every sense of the word.

Like it or not, the album was recorded by a band called Bon Jovi. Just not the one the world is hopeful for.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman View Post
Don't make the mistake of thinking that even 1% of Bon Jovi fans are like you, because they aren't. Don't think you know how Bon Jovi fans think. You don't. You know yourself. Stick to that.

Last edited by Captain_jovi; 07-09-2024 at 11:55 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #2234  
Old 07-09-2024, 11:50 PM
Thinny's Avatar
Thinny Thinny is offline
Senior Member
Jovi Freak
 
Join Date: 30 Jul 2013
Location: Leicester
Gender: male
Posts: 3,379
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myguitar View Post
Absolutely no one buys records anymore (I mean I do, but I don't know anyone else who does). I read this article and I feel the writers at Forbes, and journalists in general, are seemingly oblivious to the real world, but that's another topic. Music isn't what it used to be - 50k records in the first week and Forever made it into top 5???? Some 20-25 years ago that would've barely cracked the top 40.
You're making it sound like these charts are only based on sales though, and that people are still streaming the album. They aren't. This chart includes streaming.

While I agree that the charts aren't has important as they used to be, if Jon wants to brag about number one albums that he got from sales generated by ticket sales in the past then he has to expect a backlash when his actual sales don't live up to that.

The album has done better than 2020, but that isn't saying much unfortunately. Jon's nonsense talk of competing with the big boys and Legendary being a "hit" has come to nothing at the end of the day. It's a shame because it is their best album in a while, despite it's flaws. But there's only so much an ageing 80s rock band can do commerically. Compare them to their peers and they are doing great, but Jon constantly tries to put them in the same bracket as the big stars of today and they are so far from that now...we and he needs to be realistic.
__________________
Thinny

Last edited by Thinny; 07-09-2024 at 11:52 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #2235  
Old 07-10-2024, 12:51 AM
Alphavictim Alphavictim is offline
Senior Member
Jovi Freak
 
Join Date: 15 Sep 2005
Location: Germany
Age: 37
Gender: male
Posts: 3,648
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_jovi View Post
Like it or not, the album was recorded by a band called Bon Jovi. Just not the one the world is hopeful for.
It was, but it's time for Jon to realize that the band and his career are at a point that for them to make a serious splash, their A game is needed.

That means:
-Don't record vocals while you are not fully recovered yet (his narrative, not mine!)
-Don't write songs without your two most important collaboration partners (JBJ is only 1/3 of the names attached to Prayer, Bad Name, Bad Medicine, KTF, Born To Be My Baby, and 50% of Wanted and I'll Be There For You)
-In general, don't skip out on the spectacle of Richie having returned
-Don't cheap out on the PR (the roll out of the museum screams "JBJ & family" at this point, it's so unprofessional)

...and so on. The man's got the drive, sure, but he's gotta swallow some bitter pills and get over his ego and drop the "tHeRe NeVer wAs AnY fiGhT" soundbite bullshit. Come clean that you need Richie, and fire on all ****ing cylinders. Deliver what the people want the most, not some "this'll do" product. And ****ing re-track songs you can't sing yet when you can sing them!
Reply With Quote
  #2236  
Old 07-10-2024, 03:29 PM
semigoodlooking semigoodlooking is offline
Senior Member
Jovi Addict
 
Join Date: 04 Sep 2017
Gender: male
Posts: 540
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphavictim View Post
...and so on. The man's got the drive, sure, but he's gotta swallow some bitter pills and get over his ego and drop the "tHeRe NeVer wAs AnY fiGhT" soundbite bullshit. Come clean that you need Richie, and fire on all ****ing cylinders. Deliver what the people want the most, not some "this'll do" product. And ****ing re-track songs you can't sing yet when you can sing them!
He doesn't need Richie though, that is the problem. If he needed him, he would already be back.

Besides, fans must have shit in their nostalgia goggles. It is not as if Jon and Richie were pulling up trees as a unit pre split. We had 20 years of varying shades of shite before we got to WAN. Richie himself is hardly highlighting what a miss he is at this point.

There is no firing on all cylinders anymore, from anyone involved. We need to accept that and either move on or enjoy what we do get.
Reply With Quote
  #2237  
Old 07-10-2024, 04:02 PM
Captain_jovi's Avatar
Captain_jovi Captain_jovi is offline
Moderator
This Post Feels Right
 
Join Date: 30 Jul 2002
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Age: 39
Gender: male
Posts: 14,231
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphavictim View Post
It was, but it's time for Jon to realize that the band and his career are at a point that for them to make a serious splash, their A game is needed.

That means:
-Don't record vocals while you are not fully recovered yet (his narrative, not mine!)
-Don't write songs without your two most important collaboration partners (JBJ is only 1/3 of the names attached to Prayer, Bad Name, Bad Medicine, KTF, Born To Be My Baby, and 50% of Wanted and I'll Be There For You)
-In general, don't skip out on the spectacle of Richie having returned
-Don't cheap out on the PR (the roll out of the museum screams "JBJ & family" at this point, it's so unprofessional)

...and so on. The man's got the drive, sure, but he's gotta swallow some bitter pills and get over his ego and drop the "tHeRe NeVer wAs AnY fiGhT" soundbite bullshit. Come clean that you need Richie, and fire on all ****ing cylinders. Deliver what the people want the most, not some "this'll do" product. And ****ing re-track songs you can't sing yet when you can sing them!
"-Don't write songs without your two most important collaboration partners (JBJ is only 1/3 of the names attached to Prayer, Bad Name, Bad Medicine, KTF, Born To Be My Baby, and 50% of Wanted and I'll Be There For You)" -- Wo is the other 3rd? Desmond? Someone equally as guilty of chasing the hit? His last prominent co-write for an album (Barring Army of One) Was The Circle, an album there was just a bash-fest for on another thread. Writing with the people from when you were most successful doesn't equal a better album

FWIW the PR for this album has been the best in the last four or five albums. Minuus not being able to peform and do promo gigs, an effort was certainly in play.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman View Post
Don't make the mistake of thinking that even 1% of Bon Jovi fans are like you, because they aren't. Don't think you know how Bon Jovi fans think. You don't. You know yourself. Stick to that.
Reply With Quote
  #2238  
Old 07-11-2024, 07:56 PM
bonjovi_cro's Avatar
bonjovi_cro bonjovi_cro is offline
Senior Member
Lay your Posts on Me
 
Join Date: 14 Nov 2007
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
Age: 31
Gender: male
Posts: 639
Default

Finally bought a CD version today for my car.
Had a good conversation with a record store guy, he said new Jovi album is the most popular CD they sell, they already had two sold out orders, he mentioned 100 CDs sold. But so little percent of people nowadays buys CDs that absolute numbers are laughable.

Reading others' opinions, I settled to the opinion that Jovi's PR formula is severely outdated. This doesn't take away from Jon's hard working promo. But when you compare it to, for example, Hozier, who basically didn't have a video up for "Too Sweet" (No. 1 around the globe), but they allowed TikTok users to use it (unlike other Universal stuff) and sent every creator a signal its' free. Endogenous rise of what is basically outtake from album (it's not even included on the main LP) can be a textbook promo in this day and age. And also saturating market with singles before and in the week of release to capitalize on the hype.

There are at least 3 songs on this album that could have had potential for something (Living proof, Waves and, pains me to say, Living in Paradise), like Jovi comeback, Richie speculation, new voice/surgery, but to overwhelm the market and do it. I guess tour announcement would be also needed, but with playing cards right (with kind of shock and surprise) Jovi could have had another HAND style hit. But to open with safe and dull Legendary, as it is 2009 or something, is bad. And yes, I'm speculating and it's wishful thinking, but shame, cause there are solid songs on there
__________________
I'm full of dust and guitars.

Last edited by bonjovi_cro; 07-11-2024 at 08:00 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #2239  
Old 07-11-2024, 08:41 PM
Alphavictim Alphavictim is offline
Senior Member
Jovi Freak
 
Join Date: 15 Sep 2005
Location: Germany
Age: 37
Gender: male
Posts: 3,648
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_jovi View Post
"-Don't write songs without your two most important collaboration partners (JBJ is only 1/3 of the names attached to Prayer, Bad Name, Bad Medicine, KTF, Born To Be My Baby, and 50% of Wanted and I'll Be There For You)" -- Wo is the other 3rd? Desmond? Someone equally as guilty of chasing the hit? His last prominent co-write for an album (Barring Army of One) Was The Circle, an album there was just a bash-fest for on another thread. Writing with the people from when you were most successful doesn't equal a better album

FWIW the PR for this album has been the best in the last four or five albums. Minuus not being able to peform and do promo gigs, an effort was certainly in play.
Are we really at the point where "Richie bringing the best of what wound up being solo songs to the table would not have resulted in a stronger body of demo songs (!) to work on" is a fact?
Reply With Quote
  #2240  
Old 07-11-2024, 08:45 PM
Captain_jovi's Avatar
Captain_jovi Captain_jovi is offline
Moderator
This Post Feels Right
 
Join Date: 30 Jul 2002
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Age: 39
Gender: male
Posts: 14,231
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphavictim View Post
Are we really at the point where "Richie bringing the best of what wound up being solo songs to the table would not have resulted in a stronger body of demo songs (!) to work on" is a fact?
I don't believe I said that at all, though. But mostly because I honestly don't believe these are solo songs. If they go from

Shoddy iphone recording ----> Whole band in preproduction ----> Whole band in recording

Barring the former co-songwriter/producer no longer being apart of it, is this process really much different than past band albums?

I think there's a chasm of distance between this point and "don't write songs without your collaboration partners" when the songs written by all 3 on anything past 2001 aren't looked upon fondly by fans on this board if that makes sense?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman View Post
Don't make the mistake of thinking that even 1% of Bon Jovi fans are like you, because they aren't. Don't think you know how Bon Jovi fans think. You don't. You know yourself. Stick to that.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
forever (album)

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11.
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.