So you've ripped it.............

That is so untrue

Ok, so you really think they play YGLABN as good or better than they used to? Or Livin' On A Prayer? Or Always? Or Santa Fe? Or basically anything they did pre-2000.

They have no hope in hell sounding as good as they did, mainly because of Jon, but also because of Richie's guitar sound and the extra players ruining the sound.

Ice

Ah Alanis, again with the overstatement here. I didn't tell anyone what they can and can't listen to. You have no concept of the subtlety of language. There is a difference between suggesting something, offering and opinion and TELLING someone to do something. You don't get that.

You also don't understand the concept of a reasonable assumption. If I'm on a Bon Jovi board, it's reasonable to assume that the people posting prefer Bon Jovi to something that they deem not very good. People do this, businesses do it all the time...Jeez even you do it when you label people on BSWJBJ blind followers. Seb did it when he said that no one listens to Bon Jovi for lyrics anymore. If I'm guilty of assuming that people on a Bon Jovi board like Bon Jovi more than something they don't think is very good, I think that's reasonable and certainly not deserving of your subtle-as-a-sledgehammer, bull-in-a-china-shop response.

I'll try the irony thing one last time for you and I'm going to use your little definition to help you with it....

"an incongruity between the actual result of a sequence of events and the normal or expected result"

With me so far Alanis? Ok, you said to me:

"Don't think you know how Bon Jovi fans think. You don't. You know yourself. Stick to that."

So what you EXPECTed was that I was making judgements about other people and that people only know themselves and should stick to that. In fact, I don't know Panda and never proclaimed to - I just formed an opinion on what they thought of (the current) Bon Jovi on the basis that Panda said they think WAN is worse than something Panda admitted wasn't very good. Still with me Alanis? You blasted me for judging others when I actually wasn't and said people should just stick to judging themselves because that's all they know.

Then you say, and it's something you've since denied you said, "If you want to find blind followers like yourself and RDKopper...". So you called me a blind follower. You judged me. You failed to "stick to yourself" (to paraphrase you) and made a sweeping statement which would be proved false with a cursory glance of my posting history.

So you started with you blasting me for judging other people, which I don't and then you judged me and did exactly what you falsely blasted me for and what you said people shouldn't do. That's the incongruity.

Since then you've used your usual strong arm tactics to try and proclaim you understand the concept of irony despite being unable to see it. Wow, if only there was a word to describe that sort of thing. You know something to describe the incongruity between the actual result (you not comprehending irony) and your expected result (me not comprehending irony). If only...

I hope you're not trying to make Alanis Morrisette -reference, because, as I'm sure you know, her song "Ironic" is anything but.

You say:
And then you say:
I didn't expect anything. I told you you shouldn't think you know how Bon Jovi fans think. Which is exactly what you did and what I quoted. You just conviniently always "forget" your exact words.

There are reasonable assumptions, then there are those, where you assume what a Bon Jovi fans should like.

Again you're doing it, you just can't see it. YOU say 1D isn't as good as Bon Jovi, but that's JUST an OPINION. You keep saying "it's not very good" like you know how people here think. You don't. If Panda says he likes 1D album better, it's not "not very good", it's "very good" to him. He likes it better than Bon Jovi, deal with it. Assume what you want, but understand that that makes you look like an ass.

Irony isn't what you THINK something happened, but didn't. I didn't expect anything, I told you you were wrong, which you were. There's no irony. The irony is in you using words like "irony" when you don't actually know what they mean or how to use them. But do keep at it, it's very amusing to follow.

You very clearly said that he shouldn't post here. How could it be interpreted as anything else than you telling him what to do.

I've never denied saying that. I wouldn't deny saying something when it's easily checked by anyone. You've denied saying a lot of things, though, even when they have been quoted for you.

Actually just the opposite. But like I've said before, I may be wrong on that account, but your post history and attitude is very similar than those of blind followers. And also, you likened yourself to RDKopper, who's one of the worst. SO, you can't really blame me for thinking that.

Again, for anything to be ironic, there needs to be an expected result. Here there wasn't one. Then there needs to be an opposite result to that what was expected. When nothing was expected, there couldn't have been an opposite result. And lastly, there was nothing amusing going on, just you yapping about how you didn't do anything, when anyone can read your posts and see you're wrong.

You've outwitted yourself. The original comments were about you thinking I judged you and you calling that ironic. Then you claimed I made an assumption about you and was wrong, and that was supposed to be ironic. Now your saying that me saying that you don't understand irony is ironic.

Could you make up your mind on what is and what isn't ironic, because at the rate you're going, everything is going to be ironic to you in a matter of days.

And, like I stated before, none of the requirements of something being ironic are fulfilled in any of those cases.

And you've still to explain all the quotes where you claim to know Bon Jovi fans, tell Panda to stop posting here and generally act like you are the one who gets to choose who are fans.

But I'm sure you'll disregard all your previous posts like you've done so far and claim you never said anything like it. That's a good tactic, always deny everything you've done until they forget it. Too bad the evidence is there for all to see, so you can't really disregard it, even though you try to.

Ice

Alanis Iceman - the gift that just keeps giving.

I've never assumed that a Bon Jovi fan should like anything beyond Bon Jovi because, you know, they are, well, Bon Jovi fans. That doesn't mean you have to love every single thing they do by the way.



Ah you haven't even read the exchange between me and Panda properly have you Alanis? I never said 1D weren't any good and I've never said their album is not very good. Panda never said they were very good. Read the exchange again Alanis.

There isn't really good and bad when it comes to music, it's subjective Alanis.



You really do have difficulty with the English language. Okay I'll give this one more go.

You blasted me for thinking I know anyone other than myself. The clear inference is that you wouldn't do that. Unbeknownst to you, you then thought you knew me by saying that I was a blind follower. There's the irony. It's not when you think something happened, it's when you say or imply something and the opposite is actually true.



Yes but I didn't tell him to stop posting here. There is a difference between what I said and "You have to stop posting here". It wasn't an instruction I gave him.

I hope you kept the receipt from your English lessons because I'd be asking for my money back if I was you.



There you go again judging people. You know yourself. That's it. Don't pretend you know anyone else. And you likened me to RDKopper matey, look at the conversation again. That said, he often talks a hell of a lot more sense than you.


You are now turning into a parody of yourself Alanis, you really are. Stick to the cow farts.

You haven't even read the exchange properly - you just weighed in with nonsense Alanis. Seriously, read the exchange again and come back.

Its enough for me to listen them from youtube or spotify... Dont want that piece of crap on my computer

You want me to quote your replies again? You once again deny saying things you've said. The "mature" way, because you're a big boy?

Oh, but you did. And I've quoted this many times before, but I'll post it again:

Your exact words. Tell me, in that sentence, how do you NOT get the impression that you know what Bon Jovi fans listen to, that you know their taste in music?

I've read it very well, but you didn't understand what I was saying. I'm not quoting your conversation (if I would, I'd use the quote-function...), but paraphrasing on what you said and did. You attacked him for saying the 1D albums was better than WAN.

Oh, I know, Ron Burgundy. That's the thing I've been saying to you all along. I wasn't the one attacking people because of their taste in music, it was you, Ron Weasly.

And I'll say this again: that's not irony. If it was, it would mean that when you try to hit a nail with a hammer and you miss, that would be ironic. Guess what, it isn't.

That would be a direct order. And you most certainly did give him instructions.

Again, I'll quote you the part:
How can you read those sentences and NOT understand them as an instruction on not to post here?

Where I come from, we have free education. Ranked #1 in the world. Which is also why I understand what irony is.

Yes, I never make sense. I know nothing about music, Bon Jovi or anything else. But you, big boy, who refuses to share his age with us, must know everything. Like the fact that YOU likened yourself to RDKopper, and I quote:

That was you likening yourself to RDKopper and "millions of others". You did it. See?

LIsten, Ronald McDonald, if you don't have the grasp of irony, it's your problem, not mine. I'm just pointing out how you've told everything I've done "ironic" when we've still to see single trace of irony in this thread. If you don't count the fact that you keep telling me what irony is, but your definition of what was ironic changes constantly.

Ice

Ok Alanis,

I'll quote the post you objected to again in case we lose sight of it. Note, this is the post that YOU, only you, voiced any objection to despite the fact it didn't directly concern you in terms of participation in the conversation.

If you want to read the first paragraph as an instruction to stop posting here, then you're misinterpreting what I meant completely. That's fine, people make mistakes, but trust me, I wasn't telling Panda to do anything. I was offering an opinion not giving him an instruction. If you read it any other way Alanis, trust me, you read it incorrectly. Accept that there is a possibility I wasn't instructing him to do anything and we will move on.

The only assumption that I'm making about Bon Jovi fans is that they are fans of Bon Jovi. That's the only assumption you can make about a diverse bunch of people who post on a Bon Jovi fan site. The fact they are posting on a Bon Jovi fansite would usually indicate that they like the band more than something they don't think is very good.

For instance I've never had a conversation that went:

Me: What do you think of One Direction?
Other Person: I think they are terrible. They offend my ears. I'm not a fan at all.
Me: Oh really. What about Bon Jovi?
Other Person: I think they are even worse. Much worse than One Direction. Terrible albums over the last few years and an awful live act in recent times too. Singer is a prick too. Used to be a fan but now I wouldn't cross the road to see them unless it was to knock Jon Bon Jovi's unnaturally pearly whites right out of his head.
Me: Oh right. Fair enough.
Other Person: Yep, that's right, I'm a massive Bon Jovi fan.

I also don't proclaim to know what Bon Jovi fans listen to. However, it's reasonable to think that Bon Jovi fans, typically, think the band's output is better than something else that those same fans don't think is very good.

Ok let's take your hammer example Alanis. It's not ironic if I take a swing with a hammer and miss. Funny maybe. Ironic, no. But what if I take the hammer off you and say "You're absolutely hopeless with a hammer, I'll show you how it's done". I then take a swing and miss completely and smack my other hand. Is that ironic Alanis?

I'll take the RDkopper bit actually. I did say that originally. I didn't realise you were referencing from a separate conversation with StoneDeaf earlier in the thread. But it wasn't just RDKopper I mentioned, it was anyone who likes what Bon Jovi's recent output. Rdkopper only got a mention because StoneDeaf was having a pop at him. You seem to be labelling anyone who likes Bon Jovi's output a "blind follower" and think they should go to BSWJBJ to find like minded people. So is it a case that this site is not for people who like Bon Jovi's recent output?

So the education system in your country is #1 and yet you can't comprehend any sublety in language. Says a lot....

If you haven't spent any money on extra English lessons, I'd go and raid your piggy bank and look into it.

Why is my age such a concern or relevant by the way?

Could've fooled me, and probably many others as well.

"you really shouldn't waste your time here". That's pretty obvious. It's not an opinion.

It's a possibility, but not probable. If it was an opinion, you would've said something like "I think", "In my opinion" or "to me this is...". "You really shouldn't waste your time here" isn't an opinion.

But there you would be wrong. You don't know that. You can't know that. You were talking about a new album, which many think is crap. If that's the case, there are probably a lot of fans who actually think that there are a lot of things they "don't think is very good" that are better than the piece of crap.


Yes, that would be ironic. But the thing is, nothing like that has happened here. In your mind you expected something to happen, you assumed. That doesn't qualify as ironic. Me saying you don't understand irony and you disagreeing isn't ironic. You claiming I judged you when I told you not to judge, isn't ironic. If anything THAT would be hypocritical, which is why I didn't do that.

Irony needs a commonly agreed on result for it to work. Your own expectations that are not met don't create irony.

Like I said, I based my opinion on everything you've posted and how you've acted here. I wasn't talking about "the last 30 posts in this thread".

I don't care if you like their recent works or not. And I don't lable people blind followers, RDKopper has labled himself as one. He's said he loves anything the bands does. That's pretty much the definition.

What I do have a problem with is people like you who keep saying that people who DON'T like the new stuff should go away.

Ok, let's have this conversation in your third language. Which one would that be?

Oh, getting into personal insults? I'm quite happy with my English, thank you very much. I'd like to see you try a different language than your mother tongue. Take a pick, I'll try to understand.

Because you keep saying how "adult" and "mature" you are ("big boys"), act like a teenager and hide your age from your profile.

To me, that screams "15-year-old trying to be important".

Ice