The Richie Sambora & Orianthi album

For as much as people are blaming Shanks for swooping in and taking Richie's role it's never been confirmed WHY Richie had very little to do with Wildflower from HAND. Bobby played the solo and, I'd assume, the rest of it based on Richie calling it "Wildfire" at a radio interview he did for promo. That was one of the tracks Shanks DIDN'T produce so it could mean Richie was dissatisfied with the sound as early as 2005, was just too busy or unable to make the session but it opens up the discussion is were there cracks there that early on?

Lil Steven has a small label as well as Tommy M (drawing a blank on his last name) and they both seem to be "friends" - expected at one time to use them but they are not big enough for major promotion or tours. I guess Doc is still mgmt. they are on his web site but doubt his bread and butter so don't know how hard he may be working to find them distribution and tour backing? Remember with Dangerbird in an interview, even with them he split the investment. They had her label (now former I think since her Best of release in Japan was the end of her commitment) and mgmt at the CanyonClub first time they did that as RSO. May were trying to get them to sign them as a duo now? JMO it didn't happen - been 2 yrs. Touring and promotion can be very expensive I don't care how much money you have. No one wants to risk that big of a loss - so he needs imo to just put his money where his mouth is if it's so incredible. Been lots of engineering done - pictures show that so it should sound flawless - we'll see if live holds up. If it ever comes out - maybe digital?? If has become the biggest word in the dictionary where Richie is concerned. She told someone today or yesterday on social media - still September?

The tricky thing is we're no longer in the age where quality means sales. He could put out a masterpiece but his name isn't what it was. Anything associated with Bon Jovi isn't really that cool right now and he's slowly building his own fanbase. It's a really hard place to be in for musicians right now.

What is it with people reading those posts as being about blaming someone?

I didn't blame Shanks for anything; and I don't see where anyone else did either. It was about lyrics and it had nothing to do with placing blame at all; and certainly not about who I think is at fault (as if I had a clue).

I said I think RICHIE may have been referring to Shanks in Backseat Driver; and showed where I saw a fit with the lyrics based on comments from Bobby, Jon, Ilene, and whoever it was that said something about producers being hard to please.

Since Bobby said that Jon and Richie weren't seeing eye to eye as early as the time he was brought on board (in what, 2003? 2004?), you could be right about the earlier cracks. I didn't even know about Wildflower; but I believe I said something about the trouble starting pre-Bobby both in this post and in my response to Eveline, on another thread, when she asked what went wrong.

I personally think that the friction between Jon and Richie has been going on throughout their entire history and just flares a little hotter at some times more than others. I'm halfway convinced that Richie may have been thinking about taking a hike before LH was written - perhaps as a result of the cracks that may have already been there or maybe because he was getting restless and wanted to do his own stuff. But that's not even a full-blown theory, just a half-baked idea based on random comments from him and Jon, and fueled primarily by the WLOL lyrics and video. Hadn't he made some noise before LH about doing another album? That usually indicates a break of some kind. But I had just barely started following them then and only remember a possible album from comments people have made here.

Marolda.

I doubt Richie has much confidence in a major label either, though, as far as support goes. The label pulled support on both SITT and US. So I just don't believe that finding a label is the hold-up. He hasn't had enough luck with majors or indies for that to present a huge stumbling block. He could self-release for all the help his "labels" have been in the past.

I get what you're saying but I think you're taking what I said too personally. I never singled you or even the board out. There's absolutely a group of people, on Twitter especially, that act like John Shanks edged him out and have said that almost word for word. Ilene especially believes that. I think you're right in your theory that it flared up from time to time. My point was closer to what Becky was saying earlier that Richie not being there for a song recording happened before Jon and John were attached at the hip as he put it.

Fair enough; perhaps I did. It did seem, though, that the questions were raised in direct response to our discussion about BSD.

As I said I didn't know anything about Wildflower or the recording of it. What would Bobby playing on a song have to do with Richie and Shanks? Phil X played on Greatest Hits, too, didn't he? I'm not sure I get the connection.

Marolda - thank you. When he was working?/producing? on this album really expected to see his label. He was also pushing The Roman Band that was supposed to "open for their world tour" according to Roman's twitter feed. Then Bob came in, or Bearden - can't keep it all straight anymore.

Didn't realize label pulled on US. Just remember the unusually somber interview where his friend (another brain freeze on his name) left for Electra and he sounded so hurt by it, dropped two weeks after release. So no, your right - labels have not been his ally but got to be easier to market with one.

That discussion got me thinking and led me down the path, yes, but I wasn't saying you guys were saying Shanks is the bad guy, just there are people out there that are.

My point was more referring to the accusation that John Shanks and Jon did the work and then called in the rest of the guys and that was part of what caused the rift between Jon and Richie. Richie not making it onto a band album song and the secondary live guitarist doing it instead to me insinuates there could have been problems there before Shanks was really 100 percent involved with the band. It could have been logistical, there could have been a very good reason he didn't play on that particular song but because it was a band album, not recording it until he could play on it strikes me as odd.

Phil X playing on the Greatest Hits is such an interesting thing that I am still unable to piece together. WDYG was produced by Howard Benson who typically used Phil as his his go-to session guitarist. Once Phil officially got involved with the band, Jon had said Phil wasn't someone he knew minus him playing on Levon and touring with Aldo Nova, which would mean Phil's session work didn't even involve Jon/the band being there. Which is strange. Was it a label request? I know Jon was never truly happy that song got picked as the lead off single and the fact that it hasn't been played live since that tour confirms that.

I hope this all makes sense as to what I was saying originally. It was just the possibility that them not seeing eye to eye started pre-Shanks "Controlling" everything. I wonder when the decision was made to bring Bobby on full time. He was at both Borgata shows in 2003 and 2004 (or was it 2004 and 2005) and the promo appearances for the box set.

Oh, those Mafia secrets we all want to know!