The Richie Sambora & Orianthi album

Nige · #**3711** 09-27-2018, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supersonic

I'm sure he'd sell out a 6-8 date in the U.K. It's not how he's able to make money though, and promoters want money. Sambora would lose money over it. Just like he lost money on the 2014 tour, the 2012 tour, the 1998 tour, the second leg of the 1998 which was cancelled due to lack of funding, and the 1991 tour, which never happened because it was cancelled due to low demand.

I assume you know your way around numbers a bit with the way you talk about working with bands but your smaller local bands doing small clubs don't sleep in 4 star hotels, don't travel business class but go on a tourbus instead and don't shower every day. They're also not a liabiltiy compared to Sambora who's got a history with cancelled shows.

But let's say Sambora plays 8 shows in the U.K. in the span of 2 weeks with roughly 800 people per show. That's 6.400 people buying a 45 dollar ticket. This equals to 288.000 dollar.

Then there's merchandising. Let's just say the merchandising this tour is any good and with every show 100 people buy a T-shirt. This equals to 800 people spending 30 dollars, meaning 24.000 is made on merchandising. Let's just pretend Sambora gets to keep all that money and not take into account the production of a shirt.

Total amount made on an 8 date run: 288.000 + 24.000 = 312.000 dollar

Now there's expenses. Sambora's got a 5 man band.

60.000 = Taxes on the total revenue
12.500 = Flights from the U.S.A. assuming they all fly business class.
5.000 = Work visa for 5 band members
7.000 = Accommodation for 14 nights for the entire band. Richie's not exactly sleeping in hostels sharing bathrooms with your local backpackers.
4.000 = Minimum wages to have 4 people around him fixing him his drink, read him bedtime stories and doing whatever else they do on the road.
5.000 = Posters have to be made, Facebook stuff has to be done.
3.500 = Band members get pocked money to live from every day.
10.000 = The soundguy needs to get paid as well.
80.000 = Venue hire. Shepherds Bush isn't cheap.
30.000 = Booking agent takes about 10% of revenue
30.000 = This stuff needs insurance
30.000 = 10% of stuff I've forgotten but I'm sure there's other expenses
======= Total
247.000

312.000 - 247.000 = 65.000

This would mean Sambora has to split 65.000 with 5 people. I'm sure he'd take the biggest cut, but let's just say he's as good as baby Jesus and breaks it even with the other band members. This equals to 13.000 dollar per band member for 8 shows. Meaning each member gets roughly 1500 dollar per show and Sambora takes home 13.000 dollars after touring the U.K. I'm sure my numbers are (way) off and if they are please tell me why, but in the end it showcases just how difficult it'd be for him to tour a market that has dwindling interest in him.

When Sambora toured Europe in 2014 several venues had not sold out as they're just too big for him. Even at the height of his popularity in 1998 his tour didn't make enough money as the band he hired was just too expensive. There's a reason why there's all these nobody's in the band nowadays. Sambora selling out is just not happening unless, like you say, he tries to create a market for himself. As for now, he'd have to invest his own money to make sure he's able to tour.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

Honestly, those figures are pretty good generally.

However - a Sambora acoustic tour could do a lot better. Him and a pianist or violinist, telling stories, taking questions etc as well as a good balanced setlist would be a much better money spinner. Record the shows too and sell them to die hards (if you're reading this Richie I'd happily mix them for free

)

JackieBlue · #**3712** 09-27-2018, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nige

Honestly, those figures are pretty good generally.

However - a Sambora acoustic tour could do a lot better. Him and a pianist or violinist, telling stories, taking questions etc as well as a good balanced setlist would be a much better money spinner. Record the shows too and sell them to die hards (if you're reading this Richie I'd happily mix them for free

)

That's the kind of show I'd like to see. I wouldn't even care if there was a new album; although I wouldn't turn one down. I'd be more than happy to hear him in an acoustic setting, just doing the stuff I missed hearing live the first time around.

I still remember seeing Michael Martin Murphey, back when he was just Michael Murphey, right after he released Wildfire. He toured with just a piano player and a guy on stand-up bass. The week before that I had seen Elvis and, hand to God, Elvis' show couldn't hold a candle to his.

If Richie would do something like that with Michael Bradford and Matt Rollings, or somebody, that would be freakin' amazing.

semigoodlooking · #**3713** 09-27-2018, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nige

Honestly, those figures are pretty good generally.

However - a Sambora acoustic tour could do a lot better. Him and a pianist or violinist, telling stories, taking questions etc as well as a good balanced setlist would be a much better money spinner. Record the shows too and sell them to die hards (if you're reading this Richie I'd happily mix them for free

)

See, this is why I think only a full (electric) show would work. That description above would stop me from going to see Richie, while I would go if he was doing a full show. Of course, you would dig that and would not be alone, but at the same time I would not and I guess I am not alone either. Just by going for an acoustic show, Richie would alienate a percentage of his already small audience. Who knows what that percentage is.

And while the contradicting argument could be thrown right back at me, I would suggest most people who would love to see an acoustic show would also attend the full electric gig. Would you?

As an aside, if Richie is going to tell stories that might be a cringefest considering how he can be sometimes.

Thinny · #**3714** 09-28-2018, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nige

Have you heard what happened to Queen and The Beatles....?

Fair point....without any of them dying that is!!

Come on, the duo songwriting team split. Richie having sobroerty issues, Jon's voice gone, the last couple of albums. It's all pretty depressing as a fan.

Behind the scenes, it was probably a lot more like The Beatles than most of us care to believe...

JackieBlue · #**3715** 09-28-2018, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thinny

...Come on, the duo songwroting team split. Richie having sobroerty issues, Jon's voice gone, the last couple of albums...

And Shanks! Don't forget SHANKS!! (How could ANYBODY forget Shanks??) smh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thinny

...Behind the scenes, it was probably a lot more like The Beatles than most of us care to believe...

Oh THERE he is! Never mind... (He's Yoko, right?)

(Just for you, Captain!)

Thinny · #**3716** 09-28-2018, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supersonic

Aloha !

I'm sure he'd sell out a 6-8 date in the U.K. It's not how he's able to make money though, and promoters want money. Sambora would lose money over it. Just like he lost money on the 2014 tour, the 2012 tour, the 1998 tour, the second leg of the 1998 which was cancelled due to lack of funding, and the 1991 tour, which never happened because it was cancelled due to low demand.

I assume you know your way around numbers a bit with the way you talk about working with bands but your smaller local bands doing small clubs don't sleep in 4 star hotels, don't travel business class but go on a tourbus instead and don't shower every day. They're also not a liabiltiy compared to Sambora who's got a history with cancelled shows.

But let's say Sambora plays 8 shows in the U.K. in the span of 2 weeks with roughly 800 people per show. That's 6.400 people buying a 45 dollar ticket. This equals to 288.000 dollar.

Then there's merchandising. Let's just say the merchandising this tour is any good and with every show 100 people buy a T-shirt. This equals to 800 people spending 30 dollars, meaning 24.000 is made on merchandising. Let's just pretend Sambora gets to keep all that money and not take into account the production of a shirt.

Total amount made on an 8 date run: 288.000 + 24.000 = 312.000 dollar

Now there's expenses. Sambora's got a 5 man band.

60.000 = Taxes on the total revenue
12.500 = Flights from the U.S.A. assuming they all fly business class.
5.000 = Work visa for 5 band members
7.000 = Accommodation for 14 nights for the entire band. Richie's not exactly sleeping in hostels sharing bathrooms with your local backpackers.
4.000 = Minimum wages to have 4 people around him fixing him his drink, read him bedtime stories and doing whatever else they do on the road.
5.000 = Posters have to be made, Facebook stuff has to be done.
3.500 = Band members get pocked money to live from every day.
10.000 = The soundguy needs to get paid as well.
80.000 = Venue hire. Shepherds Bush isn't cheap.
30.000 = Booking agent takes about 10% of revenue
30.000 = This stuff needs insurance
30.000 = 10% of stuff I've forgotten but I'm sure there's other expenses
======= Total
247.000

312.000 - 247.000 = 65.000

This would mean Sambora has to split 65.000 with 5 people. I'm sure he'd take the biggest cut, but let's just say he's as good as baby Jesus and breaks it even with the other band members. This equals to 13.000 dollar per band member for 8 shows. Meaning each member gets roughly 1500 dollar per show and Sambora takes home 13.000 dollars after touring the U.K. I'm sure my numbers are (way) off and if they are please tell me why, but in the end it showcases just how difficult it'd be for him to tour a market that has dwindling interest in him.

When Sambora toured Europe in 2014 several venues had not sold out as they're just too big for him. Even at the height of his popularity in 1998 his tour didn't make enough money as the band he hired was just too expensive. There's a reason why there's all these nobody's in the band nowadays. Sambora selling out is just not happening unless, like you say, he tries to create a market for himself. As for now, he'd have to invest his own money to make sure he's able to tour.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

Yeah, as Nige says not really a bad estimate. Some of those costs would be absorbed by the promoter, not Richie's team. It does vary from band to band, and there are ways to reduce costs. For instance a lot of US acts get a UK based band to play with them in Europe. They learn all the songs, and they can be damn good, a couple of days rehearsals with the singer and they're good to go. It's a hell of a lot cheaper than flying your whole band over. When you're a solo artists it doesn't make any sense, I never got why Richie and Ori did that. Hell, I could have sourced them a band that didn't need flights, would have worked for less and been way tighter...but ho hum...

The deal with the promoters will ensure that they make money regardless. Richie would either get a flat fee, or a fee plus a % of ticket sales. Richie could probably break even to begin with if he ran it they way a tour of that size should be run, and not like an arena show. I get why he did the Bad Company tour, it would have been good money and he gets to play to the larger audience, had nicer backstage surrounding etc, and could afford the luxuries he was used to...

Again, you are totally right that Richie would have to downsize a little to do the club thing and make money, and maybe not stay in the 4 star hotels he's accustomed to...which you're right he wouldn't want to do....which goes back to my point about, he doesn't want it enough. Maybe in his 20s he would have been happy to do that. But pushing 60, I can't see it...

Thinny · #**3717** 09-28-2018, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nige

Honestly, those figures are pretty good generally.

However - a Sambora acoustic tour could do a lot better. Him and a pianist or violinist, telling stories, taking questions etc as well as a good balanced setlist would be a much better money spinner. Record the shows too and sell them to die hards (if you're reading this Richie I'd happily mix them for free

)

An acoustic tour is a no brainer, very little in the way of overheads, and I disagree with the other poster, I think that the majority of people that would want to see Richie would go regardless..those kind of shows tend to be smaller venues anyway, but with a higher ticket price.

it would be so easy to put together..

semigoodlooking · #**3718** 09-28-2018, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thinny

I think that the majority of people that would want to see Richie would go regardless..

But you thinking that does not mean a lot. I am not saying I think people wouldn't go, I am saying that I would not go. As such, I represent a definite percentage of people who would not attend an acoustic show. No opinion involved, instead a demonstrable number (me, one).

Of course, rarely is anyone alone, so I guess at least some would share my view and would not attend an acoustic show. Out of 1,000 people, the demonstrable percentage of people who would not attend an acoustic gig is 0.0010%. If I am alone in my view I will certainly not represent a problem for Richie's attendance numbers but, again, I doubt I am alone.

Now, the question then becomes what number of people would only attend an acoustic show (avoiding an electric gig entirely) and what number would only attend an electric show (avoiding the acoustic)?

My point is, describing any touring activity involving Richie as a no-brainer denies what the factors in the debate are.

Editing in because I forgot you talked about smaller venues for acoustic shows. Yeah, I get that but still think that still means Richie alienating some fans.

I have a question for you as this is in your career space. How does an artist like Richie measure demand? I mean, no recent album, no recent shows, not a major name but famous enough? Is that on the promoter end, surveys or just a shot in the dark?

GabrielC · #**3719** 09-28-2018, 08:22 AM

Anything ever came from Soundstage? Do we know what they played there? Never saw any video from that gig.

Thinny · #**3720** 09-28-2018, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semigoodlooking

I have a question for you as this is in your career space. How does an artist like Richie measure demand? I mean, no recent album, no recent shows, not a major name but famous enough? Is that on the promoter end, surveys or just a shot in the dark?

Sometimes it's just a shot in the dark, espeically the smaller promoters. At the end of the day it's promoters choice whether they wish to take a risk on the artist or not. The bigger promoters will look a lot at social media and youtube hits and those kind of things these days (which wouldn't do Richie any favours as his online stuff is awful), but less so for classic rock artists. A lot of older rock fans that go to these kind of shows do not do things like social media. I think promoters in the UK are pretty clued up to what the audiences will want, and classic rock acts are on the increase as far as concert attendance goes...

The Richie Sambora & Orianthi album

New Bon Jovi Releases