1,000

I'd like to see you prove this. Have you ever been to a prison? I've visited one, and at least here, none of that is true.

Well, you remember wrong. As long as the communism works, the crime rates are much lower than those of western democracies.

That's where you're wrong again. I've said this many times, and I will say it once more. I hope that someday you'll end up in a situation where you are dependant on the help of others. Then come to me and say that the government should just let you die of hunger. Until then, keep your upper-class, nitwit opinions to yourself. Social security is a human right, not something you get because you were born to a right family.

A baby born to a crack-using mother should take responsibility of his life? An orphan whose parents have died should get a job to feed herself? When your house burns down along with everyone in it, you're just supposed to pick up what's left and start all over again with nothing? I don't think you've thought this through. Try doing something instead of just talking big.

Go out to the streets and tell those people who they should live, tell them it's their own fault they don't have a home. GO and tell them each one is responsible for where they are born, who raises them and what education they get. Do that, and then come here and tell us that everyone's responsible of only their own lives.


You really should go out and see what is this "comfort" you speak of. You have a lot of opinions and a big mouth, but you know very little of what really goes on. Don't just believe the propaganda, go out and find out for yourself. And I don't mean digging up statistics in the library, go out to a homeless shelter and look at the "comfort" they get "for free". Go to the ghettos and see the "comfort" people live in and the kind of money they live on. Move out from underneath your parents wings and live on your own, not accepting their help, see how long you survive with the same money the poor people have.

Ice

I'm not going to argue socialism with a true believer. We can quote what-ifs at each other all day, but when you get down to it, we belong to differing schools of thought. You believe that through law, you have the "right" to point a gun at me and demand my money, for the purpose of doling it out to others. I believe you don't.

Adrian

Some people actually agree with paying taxes. I for one, and I'm sure Ice as well, do not feel forced to pay my taxes. I'll add that through the different organizations I support, I even give more than the law obliges me too.

I agree with it because that money goes to schools, hospitals, infrastructures, culture, defense, insurance, environment, (all of which I guess you never took any benefit from or cared for...) and yes, to people who need more than they can earn on their own to feed their kinds and give them a proper shelter. After I've been "stolen" so much money guess what? I can still live well above the average level.

If you feel that that legal obligation is like a gun on your head you're the one that should flee to Alaska and try to make it out with no one elses support.


Ponrauil

Amen. That's what I've been trying to tell the guy, but he just doesn't get how much the society and all the people in it have provided him with.

Ice

I don't believe in socialism. Socialism and social security are two totally different things.

If I had to put myself in a genre, I'd say I were more democratic, humanistic and ethical than socialistic. Socialism has a lot of bad ideas, as nearly any movement taken to extreme has.

Libertarianism is way too caught up in trying to come up with a solution to help the upper class with minimum effort on their part. Such as, "we won't pay taxes, but we still thin the government should provide us with a working infrastructure" or "all schools and education should be left to private sector, because then only the rich could get education and we'd get rid of all the horrible poor people." Not a humane or ethical way to go in any way.

Learn by seeing and doing, not by reading. Go out and educate yourself.

Ice

And yet so many people who are strongly opposed to the death penalty will still think that there is nothing wrong with the abortion of an unborn child, thinking more about the 'rights' of the mother instead of the right of the child to be even born, let alone live.

When does an embryo become a child? When it's 4 cells? 16 cells? 2 months?

Ice

Ah yes, of course. Every single abortion is performed at the embryo stage, yet they can be performed at a much later stage and still considered legal.

I didn't say anything about legal. I asked you a question, you didn't answer. Who decides when an embryo becomes a child?

Ice

i don't disagree. social and political changes don't just "happen".

higher standard of living reduces crime but i didn't say it's the only factor.

sure, i also never talked about "eliminating" crime or the gap between rich and poor people. after all, that's the meaning of "power". it always existed and it will always exist, between individuals as well as between nations.