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Originally Posted by Jim Bon Jovi
the problem with this train of thbought adrian is that we live in a society and that means doing our bit to help each other out whether that be refraining from raping and murdering each other or helping those less fortunate than us.
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That's what LAW is for. Law is perfectly acceptable for telling people not to rape and murder each other. It is not an acceptable use of the force of law to attempt (and that's all you're going to be able to do) to equalize everyone's station in life.
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Originally Posted by Jim Bon Jovi
i've worked ever since i was 13 except for a 2 week hiatus and i make not bad money teaching now but i still realise that at the end of the day EVERYONE is better off if we all pull together and do as much as possible to help each other.
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I'm happy that you've developed a generous world view. Please don't force it on me.
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Originally Posted by Jim Bon Jovi
if a mate is short of money do you say actually i've earned this so you can earn your own or do you say here's a bung pal just get it to me when you can?...
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Of course I'd help someone out. It's my choice. Nobody in government is saying "help them out or we'll arrest you."
Since Jan. 1st, I've made $7000, which is pretty shitty money for me. I gave up the opportunity to make $5000 to advance my education over the summer. $4000 of that was spent on investments, a quarter of which I lost in this recent stock market debacle. And you know what, I'm still planning on making my annual donation to the Christmas book drive. Usually the amount I donate is a drop in my financial bucket, this year though, it's well over a tenth of what I've made this year. I'm plenty charitable on my own, and would be even more so if people in Congress would leave my money alone.
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Originally Posted by Jim Bon Jovi
we pool our resources to pay for streetlights, the cops, the fire brigade and we don't turn round and say you don't pay taxes so the cops aren't coming when you get robbed so i really don't think we're at liberty to say we're not going to help you out if you lose your job or you get sick and can't work.
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Streetlights, cops, fire department are all usually state and local entities, and are for general use. I have no problem paying reasonable taxes for such things. Taxation for post offices, roads, a military, patents, etc. is provided for in the US Constitution and is perfectly reasonable. Taking money from those who have more and giving it out, no strings attached to every Tom, Dick, and Harry who show up with their hand out is no reasonable and is not provided for in our highest law.
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Originally Posted by Jim Bon Jovi
adrian i wonder what you're thoughts are on the fact that it's VERY well documented in sociological studies that crime is mainly the result of poor socioeconomic circumstances. since you're an advocate of gun rights and protecting ones liberty etc... don't you think providing less opportunity for criminality to exist is a good idea?
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It is not hard to put on a button-up shirt, comb your hair, and find higher-than-minimum wage job with opportunities for advancement. My godfather started off on the canning line at Green Giant Canning and ended up the VP. My dad put himself through college on his own dime working that same canning line, and is now a teacher supporting a one-income family. My boss flunked out of his first college, put himself through the second, and is now a retail manager making very good money. One of my friends at work put herself through under grad college, and is currently going through grad school while working full time - doing such a good job that she got a promotion. I can find you a dozen more stories like that every time I go into work.
If someone is physically capable of working, they can support themselves. It's not going to be a lot of fun, and it's probably not going to get them onto an episode of MTV's Cribs, but they can do it. I and the rest of the working population should not be forced by law to support other people's laziness and mistakes and poor financial decisions.
Adrian
PS I'm not going to be able to debate this one for a while. I'm working nearly 60 hours in the next 5 days.