Abortion

not one to argue but can you show me this history? otherwise IMO that seems like a very sexest remark.

again i would like to back up my argument 9dnt worry i wont mention religion what soever! but

http://crime.about.com/od/female_off...er_killers.htm

That's not what I'm asking for. I wouldn't ask, thus even less force, the decision to abort or not on my girlfriend or anyone else.
But the father's word should be taken into account for the mother to make her decision, as it will have an impact on both their lives. That's not only to respect the father's rights, but also to make him face his responsibilities as well as to take some pressure off the mother's shoulders.

Let's pick an example :

My girlfriend and I already have a 2 year old daughter and we're expecting another one for april (for those of you who didn't know, here's the news )
If the echography we had a couple of weeks ago had revealed a severe handicap I would have expected my word to be taken into account. For various reasons I do not think myself capable of taking care of a handicaped child and I do not want my child to have such a life, or the elder sister to have to live this dramatic change.
But what if my girlfriend wanted to keep the child?
I don't qualify to deny her that right, but does she have the right to impose that on me? On our first child for which we're both responsible?

A whole lot of questions would then be raised and I don't see how the father's word in such a situation should have a lesser weight than the mother's.


Ponrauil

although im not for abortion of a child just because they may be handicaped i do agree with you that both parents should have an equal say in the future of the child!

women say its there body and thats understandable but are they forgetting that half of the baby is ours? when you get divorced it has to be because both sides agree to it! but because one person wants to get rid of the baby then its aborted?? doesnt make sense to me

No but you did use the phrase "women who have never been pregnant or religious fanatics or otherwise mentally obstructed individuals". I don't think it's an unreasonable interpretation that this puts those who choose not to have children into a lower class.

The expectation for women to have children and to define themselves in terms of their motherhood is entirely real. For now, this is just a minor annoyance for women who choose not to, but one that would grow if it were to affect their legal status in any way!

True, but you had just called her mentally obstructed.

And, yes. It's a very good thing to have a kind girlfriend


Two points here

1) If a decision affects me, which abortion law does, not least as a potential father, I should have an input in the decision making process. Women who have yet to conceive are those at the very sharpest end of this legislation.

2) Being male or childless does not prevent anyone from understanding the issues involved, just as having been pregnant does not necessarily bestow moral or scientific knowledge upon a woman.

Your position seems to value the emotional experience of having children over a balanced consideration of the issues involved. Yes, a mile in your shoes gives you a unique voice, but it is only one amongst many.

The point is it wouldn't be "just" because of the handicap, but because of all the consequences (social, psychological, emotional, financial, material,...) on at least three other lives (in my example).


Ponrauil

I think there's no question that the mother's word has more weight in that situation. I agree that the fathers opinion should count as well, but it's the mothers decision ultimately. And as harsh as it is, if you don't like the mothers decision, you can always leave. But you can't force someone to carry a child she doesn't want or to abort a fetus because you don't want to have a child.

Ice

ok so if u marry and wanted to have child yourself and your wife agrees to it. she gets pregent and your over the moon because finally your going to have a child of your own. then 3 months down the line she says hold on a second u know i dont really want to have a child so i just had it aborted! i know you dont mind because as u said its my decision.

i just think with the number of women in this world who cant have children and who want one more than anything its very selfish to have an abportion becuase you dont want a child. theres always adoption, just because you give birth doesnt mean you have to raise it. theres always a choice

i can see thew arguments for abortion but i dont think that can outweight the joy that that baby would bring to a childless family

Again I won't force anything on anyone, the final decision in such a situation should be a collective one imo (mother + father + possibly the big enough brothers and sisters).

I just think in some situations, like this example, being the one that carries and gives birth to the baby isn't enough to be the one and only decision maker, for the father AND the mother's sake.


Ponrauil

I never said I wouldn't mind it, but it's not my decision. If the woman I married would do something like that, I wouldn't stay married for long. But still, it would be her decision to make. I wouldn't have to like it, though.

Native English speaker and horrible spelling.

Well, if it's that easy, why don't you get pregnant and carry the child with you for 9 months. Then give birth. Abortion is a choice, having a child just because someone else might want one is not a good one. There are plenty of children that need a good in the world. Why bring another one?

Like I said, there are plenty of adoptable childern in the world. There's no reason to bring another unwanted child to this chaos.

Ice

I know what you mean, but I can't see how a collective decision could be made when it's just the mother that "suffers" the consequences until the baby is born. I couldn't make that decision, collective or not. I could give my opinion, but I couldn't require it to have any effect on the mother's decision.

Ice