Are you a perv?

We're going off topic here...but anyway..first...Kylie is above Britney. She works just as hard as Madonna.

It's obvious you haven't seen Madonna's shows, so you probably shouldn't be trying to comment on them. There is lip syncing involved in her shows..BUT it isn't the whole show or an easy way out. Most often when there is lip syncing, its because the performance routine is way too demanding to be singing live for the particular song or the vocal part just cannot be created live. For example, in Justify My Love, the main body of the song on the Girlie Show tour was lip synced..but the new outro to the song was sung live. Think of the song and it's easy to hear why that part was lip synced.

But then consider the 1990 tour. She lip synced one song and she announced this prior to the song,. The rest were all live and that show was not an easy performance.

Bottom line, lip syncing is a at a minimum in her shows and she always makes up for it. both in dancing and singing her ass of when actually singing live...which is the greater majority of the show lenght.

Frankly...if Jon was giving out the kind of performances Madonna does....I'd have gotten tickets yesterday anyway I could in any seat I could get. Instead, I opted to not go at all when no real decent seats came up.

Try not to buy into media hype and public personas so much when judging a performer..do your research.

Britney however.....is everything that is wrong with music today...feel free to rip her to shreds. I don't believe she's ever sung a note or did an original dance move.

I do not buy into media hype or any of that crap at all . i judge things as i see them i dont like madonna`s music at all thats just me. because i really dislike her music and Kylie`s , Spears etc etc. when i look at them all i see is an act trying to sell "music" by using their body in a video or live performance.
My understanding of this is because they believe it will be good promotion.
My beef is that if your music is good quality stuff it will sell itself you dont need to expose half (or more) of your body to do that.

i know a lot of people like madonna. i respect the fact that you do and so do millions of others.

definition of pornography or Spears/ Girls aloud / etc etc )
"creative activity (writing or pictures or films etc.) of no literary or artistic value other than to stimulate sexual desire"

I took my little sister to see her years ago. I don't think she sang one song.

On to the main issue again - I'm with BP on this. You can't compare violence to sex. I've never had the urge to go and kill someone. However, watching porn occasionally does fill a certain urge that I will get from time to time.

As for the whoe dominance over women thing - That's a load of crap. I say this as someone who has seen a lot of porn. That's rubbish. The sex in porn isn't all that different from sex in real life. I assure you, the women are enjoying it every bit as much as the men are (some even more so.)

Although I tihnk Madonna's music is crap now, there's no denying her talent. I saw her live in 1990, and though while I'm certain a good half of the show was lip synched, it was original.

That's the difference. I watched a Britney Spears show on cable from her last tour. She just copies everything Madonna does, but to a less enjoyable and sluttier degree. The thing is, her music isn't even catchy anymore. Her first 2 albums had a couple of catchy tunes. Everything since is just horrendous.

i shouldnt have put spears in the same sentance as madonna. but you get what i mean.

So, Jon is just naturally good looking and can't help it that women fall over for him? Whereas, Spears or Madonna are exploiting their bodies and faces?

Garbage.

They are all the same in that sense....

I don't know Spunk - It would be naive to say Jon doesn't use his looks to an extent, but not in the same vein as Britney. Think of it this way:

HAND, Slippery When Wet, New Jersey, Keep The Faith, Bounce - Jon wasn't on the cover of any of those. I'm not certain, but I would rather dount Britney has released any albums without her face on it. Madonna probably as well.

In the music business, it's a fact - Sex sells. Jon simply shakes his ass and smiles. You don't see videos of him without his shirt on, or taking a bath.

I think Danfan just admitted hes a wanker

Ain't we all

Back to the original topic I think one of the ways I look at porn and the dominence over women thing (or 5 women and 1 man ) is that these are persistant men's fantasies. Much porn is made by men for men and that theme will predominate. It's one of the reasons I said earlier that I prefer the written word. In the last 10 - 15 years there has been a huge advance in womens erotica (as it is so delicately put - it's not porn <gasp>) These books showcase the female fantasy which obviously does more for me personally. Also the internet has helped spread the "female fantasy" in addition to the "male fantasy". I don't think either of these are negative stereotypes - they are just different. And of course - sometimes the female fantasy and the male fantasy do intersect

Kathleen