Brits: ID cards

Holland had Nazi's??

If you are referring to Pim Fortuyn who was gunned down then I would like to clarify that he was right wing but under no circumstances was he in any way close to a Nazi...

About ID Cards.. I think Holland has them, I know you have to be able to produce identification should you be asked. Never had a problem with it. Like has been said, it is only those who have something to hide that do not want it.

Yeah sorry, I tend to be a little flippant for attempted comedy purposes… I know he wasn’t actually a Nazi just a little hard-line… he was a slaphead though and that can sometimes be just as inexcusable.

Tis okay I know who's saying it! But I just think that the rest of the world has a wrong image about him. He wasn't even that hardline and yet he was compared to Le Pen. Yes, he had strong ideas about immigration but he was not a racist or even that hardline.

What do you mean by slaphead anyway??

I think it was just that he campaigned for the withdrawal of the first article of your constitution which as far as I can gather is basically related to anti-discrimination rights. I can see him being anti-immigration but appealing for changes that would allow persecution, whatever his motivation, was always going to grab some unfavourable headlines. He was no Le Pen though that’s for sure.

As for “slap head” I’ll let you work it out… but if you were to hit the top of his head really hard with an open hand…

What he said was that Holland was small and therefore it was too full. If you think about it Holland is one of the most densely populated countries in the world, 16 million people live here! He just said that it was full and the country should not let more people in. He felt that the people that were here should contribute to the country and not try and live off the society and that all the immigrants should get Dutch status but should actively be part of the Dutch culture, i.e. they have to learn the language and know and understand the Dutch culture. The thing is he wasn't being unreasonable! Everything he said has been implemented now one way or another and with the recent murder of Theo van Gogh people feel that he had a valid point. You see it was easier to brand him a racist, but he just called it as he saw it and he never said anything derogatory.

Slaphead... get it now.. just a little slow today...

Regarding my charges of fascism against nations that issue ID cards, what purpose did the Nazis have in issuing them? I don't think it was to keep out the terrorists, but to control the population. Turkey issued ID cards (maybe just to Armenians, my source isn't clear on that) in order to restrict the movement of Armenians out of the country, away from the homicidal impulses directed towards them. The Russians had internal travel passports, and they butchered thousands of dissidents. Do I think the moment Britain institutes an ID card SS soldiers are going to rise out of their graves, or the police are going to put on black leather uniforms with silver skulls on the collars? As humorously appropriate as I think that last instance would be anywhere ID cards are instituted, I don't think any country that requires them AUTOMATICALLY becomes infested with Nazis. It just makes it that much easier for them (or some contemporary counterpart) to come to power, and when they do (power corrupts, remember) it'll make it that much harder for people to fight back or leave. I wonder how many people sanctioned Nazi ID cards (nothing to worry about if you have nothing to hide, right?) as they were stood up against walls, pushed into ditches, or loaded on to box cars.

Think about it. What's the point of an ID card? To verify one is a citizen. What is the point if you cannot be FORCED to show it, to PROVE you are a citizen? Obviously, they're going to punish people who don't have them or don't carry them or refuse to show them or refuse to get them...does this strike you as one of the hallmarks of the death of freedom and the rise of a police state, or is it just me? Forget how "kind" or "caring" your police state is perceived to be. If you cannot travel freely and without official harrassment (and not having done anything wrong of course) inside your own town, city, state, country, whatever, you're living in a police state, and their level of "kindness" as displayed through their redistribution of wealth is irrelevant to the reality of their true nature.

Adrian

Adrian you're just assuming the only reason for bringing in the cards is the exact same one the Nazi's used which is kinda stupid considering we've got several nationalities here already using ID cards which don't appear to be burning Jews and gypsies or living in a Big Brother state.

If you're always going to look for the most negative aspect of something then you're always going to find it.

No, I'm not assuming that's the reason for instituting an ID card. Go back and reread sentences 5 and 6 in my last post. I'm just saying that ID cards make it a heck of a lot easier for evil, tyrannical people in government to gain unnecessary power over their fellow citizens. Once they do, and they ALWAYS do, it's too late. By the time enough people are actually opening their eyes let alone speaking out, they're up against walls, or soldiers are stacking their luggage at the train depot. The only way to stop it prior to that is to never let it start. The ONLY way to stop it at that point is through violent conflict.

Adrian

Adrian you're letting off a bit of a stereotypical " everyone laughs now but when the bombs start dropping they'll all want in my nuke shelter" paranoid vibe here.

i noticed half of the paragraph said you weren't assuming anything. but the 1st part and the end ARE you assuming and pretty much everything you said there is takign for granted that things are going to go all gestapo on us.

It isn't inevitable (see everyone living in relative peace who carries ID cards) and as arrogant as it sounds, I think the United Kingdom is a bit too developed to get to the point of either A) accepting fascism or B) mounting a revolution.

The countries that comprise what you probably think of as the UK all have a pretty stable political climate… the closest thing to a fascist movement, the BNP, are despised and defeated time and again when they try and enter the political ring…oooh, that sounds vaguely painful… They are hated by most every right-thinking individual and I fail to see how an introduction of ID cards could possibly facilitate their rise in popularity.
The only other political extremist we ever really had was the Late Screaming Lord Such of the Monster Raving Looney Party and as he campaigned for crossing buttons to be lowered for hedgehogs I doubt we were in much danger had he found himself in any position of authority.

As for fit police girls shoe-horning themselves into black leather then I’m wondering if it would all be such a loss if the shit did hit the fan anyway.