Do you also get tired of all that talk about Deep Purple ?

Don't mix your opinions and the truth. You can't define where one music style ended and the other one began.

What about the blues? What about Chuck Berry? What about Elvis? The fact that you've heard "many people say" proves nothing. You can't ignore the history.

What about Jimi Hendrix, Marc Bolan, Alice Copper, The Doors, Guess Who, Humble Pie, Thin Lizzy, hell, even The Beatles?

You can't say that only two bands changed the music. Music evolves, it does not go through phases with sudden changes. There were loads of bands doing the same stuff.

I know you like DP and Zeppelin, but you shouldn't say they were the first. You really can't even say who was. But I'm not saying they weren't in the forefront, just don't claim they started it alone.

he said "pretty much" invented

not they DID

and they did "pretty much" pioneer metal music, along with black sabbath...

Blues is not rock.... Rock may have evolved from blues, or from rock and roll acts like Chuck Berry, but in terms of saying Dylan started it, is to say he was the one who took it beyond the blues, into what we know as rock. Of cource, it was all experimentation, and nobody was trying to create a new form of music, but from what I've heard, Dylan was the first to create something I would term rock.

Being in the forefront is the same thing. I can apreciate what you're saying, and you're right, there can't be one band, or two bands starting it, because it was a movement, and there were hundreds of bands around at that time, all moving towards rock. But still, Purple, Zeppelin, Floyd, Sabath and several others (including Thin Lizzy) are remembered as the main drivers of rock. But more imporantly, they're the ones who are remembered, who inspired future generations. A lot of rock bands (including Bon Jovi) have been in some way influenced by Zeppelin, Purple, but probably not directly by the likes of Blodwin Pig (and early Tull), Arther Brown..... even bands who were famous in their time, like Ten Years After. Purple's controbution to music, in terms of inspiring other bands, plus the fact they were there at the start.... ask somebody of that generation about the impact of Hush! People hadn't heard songs like this before.
Again, if I was writting in essay on music, and the origens of rock music, I wouldn't have made that claim, becuase i can see the flaws in it. But just to make a point, I don't see what the big deal in saying they were one of the bands that invented the whole thing. They were progressive, they were ahead of most bands in terms of catching onto rock..... When you consider songs like Hush, Wring that Neck, Mandrake Root, and what was out at that time, there really weren't too many other bands pushing in the same direction as Purple.


I didn't mix my opinions with the truth..... we're not back to this old I have to say "IMO" everytime I write something are we
Sure, you can't deffine bands under a music style, that's why you have things like Blues Rock bands, Blues/Jazz e.t.c. That's why you can go into HMV one week, and see Bon Jovi in the rock/pop section, then the next in the Heavy Metal sec. The fact is, deffining these catagories is completely opinion, therefore, if I define rock music as begining from Dylan, then this is my valid opinion. Under my definition of rock I'm able to assert that it began with Dylan, because before that, there isn't anything that is rock music to me.

Live Manchester Free Trade Hall 1966 (only relecently in 90s released officially but as a bootleg for eons) is considered by near-all rock/music critics/journalists/historians to be THE first ever rock record... and his electric interpretations surpass the genius of the acoustic originals

my friend is THE authority on Dylan so if anyone wants a Dylan argument flame it up right now please... and I'll get him to respond at some point

Thanks tom.....

Off the point, but for anybody who hasn't got the record, buy it, it's well worth listening too. It was released at some point as being from London, but it deffinately is Manchester!

You quite obviously have different take on rock that rest of the world. Rock as a word is just a shortened version of rock&roll, and if you consider that, then the (arguably) first rock record was released in 1951 ("Rocket 88").

Even if you think "rock" is something else than rock&roll, you shouldn't forget the Beatles or the Stones and the like. If rock isn't rock&roll, where does rock&roll stop and rock begins? Who was the first "rock" artist?

Rock is usually used as a term that covers everything from rock&roll to heavy rock. Maybe you should firste define what you mean by "rock" and then decide who started it. And I very much doubt that "near-all" music critics say that Dylan started rock. Hell, many would say he's never been rock, he's more folk. But whatever rocks your boat.

Ice

dylan doesn't rock my boat - other bands do... but that IS considered the first rock album...

yes there was rock n roll - but the two diverged...

they have different cultural roots... dylans "folkness" was a Realist rebellion against the romanticisism and rebelllion of rock n roll

That's not good enough. Define "rock". What it is, where it came from, who started it, what's the first "rock" record? There were others doing the same thing as Dylan, why didn't they start "rock"?

What about the Animals? The Yardbirds?

Ice

Sure part of Dylan is folk orientated, but this is where he started. When he turned electric, it was rock.......

Music is always influenced by what comes before it, how can you define something as classical? Classical music influenced a lot of rock musicians, this doesn't make rock music classical. The way that music does develop into different styles is through experimentation within the genra's that do exist. You can't have rock without blues, and rock and roll, but that doesn't mean that rock music IS blues and rock and roll.

Pop doesn't just mean popular, it's turned into it's own musical group. Deep Purple can have a song in the top 10, but it's not a pop song. In the same way, Rock may be short for Rock and roll, but it has come to have a different meaning, and thus is seperate from the meaning of rock and roll..

jesus man, i have work to do i haven't got time to do an essay on rock...

animals/yardbirds had rock about them too... animals were much more bluesy in content, byrds were a hybrid of the pop sounds of the 60s but with new ideas... sam, yardbirds again a cross-culture thing

as was Dylan yes... dylan is not the "originator" of rock, but that's considered by many to be the 1st rock album... again it's like the question of God....

well who invented god... who the person who invented god... the inventor of the inventor of the inventor etc...

this is a good discussion though - start a new thread so we can continue it later - i do need to do some work just for now...