Drug tests at school...

That's another thing that really pisses me off too. So many people are quick to jump on the fact that 'it violates my rights' when most don't even know what their rights are! If it stops one kid from dying from a drug OD then it's a good thing! The only people who should give a toss about random drugs tests in schools are the drug-users and pushers, as Jimsaid before.

This kinda reminds me of the whole ID cards for all fiasco and uproar that hit headlines a while back whereby everybody was expected to have one to prove identity and whereabouts etc. There was so much controversy as to whether it 'violated my rights' that people seemed to be using the phrase almost by knee-jerk reaction instead of maybe considering the benefits to society it could bring!

Bulls**t - they have your best interests at heart (well, most anyway!) and I don't see how people could see it any other way. Ask yourself this:

Would you want to send your kids to a school where they didn't check for weapons or drugs and nobody knew who was wandering around with what in their pockets ready to use/give/sell on or to other kids (your kids), or a school which strived to keep your child as safe as you'd expect them to in your absence by enforcing random spot-checks? Even if your kids got spot-checked, it hardly causes them unnecessary mental stress if they have nothing to hide does it? After a while it would become part and parcel of everday school-life. Why do people fight and resist positive change?!?!

exactly r8 bud.

as i've said before, if you have nothing to fear then it's not a big problem. adrian you're always going on about the government arrestign people for thsi and that. i know people in certain illegal organisations which to you means i could be snatched at any time off the street if the government knows about it. but it ain't going to happen because our governments are actually pretty civilised compared to alot of places.

the only problem i have with the random drug tests is that there isn't much they can do about it but at least it's better than just turning a blind eye.

and what about the kids and teacher that have to put up with it? there's enough people going into school tooled up and prepared to use whatever they have when totally sober, when you've got drugs in you you;re even more likely to use it.


it's just a bit of common sense people. if you think it's a violation of rights then you're just daft.

are they gona do it at college?

if the did id have no tutors

i guess i wouldnt be needing them tho

i dont do drugs, honest but like umm, its hard to go home at the end of the day without stinking of gear lol

Adrian, you may not like it, but schools already are surrogate parents. It isn't a matter of turning into that, because it has already happened. Private action again sounds great in theory, but how many parents will actually utilize it?? If a parent doesn't even care enough to support the kid, do you really think they will care enough to seek outside help to do it?

Do you really believe that people would give this money to charity?? They will use it to support themselves, not others. Great theory, but let us talk about real life here.



Who is talking about gunpoint? Again, I didn't say what the consequences should be, only that there should be something. Freedom to make the wrong choice?? And who will pay for that wrong choice, a child that never asked to be brought into this world. That isn't fair either.

Oh good grief. I know my rights. They're elaborated by the Bill Of Rights, the most important document in the history of the United States. In fact, Amendment 4 of the Bill Of Rights states "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched and the persons or things to be seized."Pawing through students lockers and asking them to pee in bottles so the admins. can be sure they're not high violates that "to be secure in their persons, papers, and effects" part. Sorry to trouble you with facts, I'm sure that's not what you were looking for. One kid ODing is certainly a tragedy. The worse tragedy is a generation growing up with no concept of personal privacy or property, who willingly hand over whatever the men and women with badges/IDs ask them to. How about this:Ifyou can find me 10 articles from the past year about seperate kids tipping over dead of an overdose in school, and I'll be well on my way to being convinced that its a problem. Personally, I don't know of any cases like that, but I bet you can probably find me triple that number, since its so prevelant of course.

You want to bring up ID cards!? Benefits to society my...well, you know what. Remember the infamous "papers, please" line from every World War 2 movie ever made? You really want to set the Third Reich loose on America? What's the point of having an ID card if you're not expected to show it? And what's the point of being expected to show it, other than to prove your obedience to the benevolent fatherland of course. Perhaps we could give the people who will request our papers nice black uniforms with skulls on the collar, German Sheperd attack dogs, and nice, shiny MP5s, the better to understand the crucifixation of freedom taking place.

Is there a line to be crossed, when we say, NO this WON'T save any more kids, this is the LAST of my GOD GIVEN RIGHTS that you will take away, it STOPS here?! Is any freedom sacred?

Adrian

Adrian, kids don't have to overdose for it to be a problem. Go visit the schools in NYC one day, and then tell me how it is not a problem.

Oh, I responded to your previous post also above.

I think that the kids could request private help if their parents don't care about them. Again, the feds don't need to get involved at all. If there is a need, the private sector (or local government) will always find some way of filling it, because that's what they do best. Why do we need to rely on the feds for everything? Taking over responsibility for parenting some kids is one or two steps removed from taking over parenting for all kids. Humanity is great at inventing, the last 10,000 years of technical progress have shown that thousands of times over. I think humanity can invent some way of taking care of unwanted children.

That is talking real life. Look at all the donations gathered after Sept 11. Didn't a nationwide kids charity drive (proposed by Pres. Bush I think) net somewhere around 1 million dollars? And that's just from kids! The church I attend gathers around $30,000 a week from 3 days of services. I think they offer, total 6-8 hours of church services, and yet they get $30,00 a week, and this isn't exactly a Beverly Hills style neighborhood. They get that money from the middle and lower class. That's incredible in my eyes. Americans have donated millions of dollars after every war/invasion in history, and give millions to charity every year. With 40-60% of their incomes back, I guarantee you they won't spend it all on beer and socks.

Obviously, in order to be effective, those consequences will have to be enforced by the police (in the beginning, against only those who break the laws), if they're not private sector/local government. Yes, the child will pay for their parents wrong choice. Yes, that sounds and is awful, but the alternative is far, far worse.

Adrian

Adrian you're far too idealistic for your own good.

Over here if you're a smack head or an alcoholic you get extra benefits to try and help you get back on your feet and off the drugs. guess exactly what at least 95% of them go and spend that money on as soon as they collect it?

Can't believe I'm saying this, but I totally agree with you here, Jim!

Go on, make your comments about this... :P