Drug tests at school...

Well this "invention" hasn't happened yet, and it is only getting worse.



That is great, but one day visit a place like Harlem, NY or Jersey City, NJ and tell me how many donations they get from the people in their neighborhood. Not all towns are like yours.

Adrian, this coming from a nice boy who lives in Wisconsin. Talk to some kids whose parents have made the wrong choice, and then tell me how awful it REALLY is.

It's about time you were right for once :P

seriously though. when i was in school there was alot of gang fighting and stuff and when i was in 4th year it really got mental and at one point there was a full scale riot going on with people running about with hatchets, snooker cues, pool balls in socks, scalpels they'd nicked from tech, knives, baseball bats, machetes and just about everything apart from guns you can use to do damage to someone.

is searching their lockers for weapons when you know they're all going to fight at lunchtime a violation of their rights? what about the rights of all the people that had nothing to do with it but ended up getting screwdrivers stuck in their head and hit with bricks?

a bit of common sense is needed here.

Well then, the only possibility is for every taxpayer on the continent to cough up even money so Uncle Sam can unConstitutionally try to fix a problem that will never go away. Meanwhile, those taxpayers will lose even more of their freedom. Good idea.

You've got a very good point here, but my point is still the same. The private sector WILL take care of it. They WILL come up with something. Instead of looking at government as a crutch you can use while you face all the world's evils, people should try and come up with something on their own. Simply because those neighborhoods may not (ok, there's a great chance they would not) donate money to charity doesn't mean that charities wouldn't try and help them.

So again, the only possible choice to correct parent's bad decisions is government intervension. You want to see awful? Really? Get the government to start intervening in parenting. Get government the heck out of everything except those things which the Constitution gives them power over, and lets restore some responsibility to this country. How would these problems be solved if government wasn't involved? Life wouldn't be hell, it'd just be different. Lets find a way to work towards that "different."

Common sense would dictate that when found with illegal weapons, or found using said weapons, the perpetrators would be handed over to the police. Or, if not found in violation of state law, they would be removed from school grounds. Or possibly sent to a higher security school. The possibilities are endless, and very few involve government intervension. People should show some creativity, instead of turning to their Congressmen for a handout from their fellow citizens pockets. But no, my guess is, when found with weapons, your fellow students had their weapons taken away, were given a reprimand, send home for a day and a half, and then let back in.

I don't consider myself an idealist. IMO an idealist is someone who strives to change human nature, or to stamp out that which they find disturbing. I'm not trying to do any of that. My goal is simply to point out that for about 100-120 years, the people of my country had more than a shred of responsibility (and freedom) when it came to dealing with their own problems, be those problems gang violence, drug use, or bad parenting, and that when they lost that personal responsibility, those problems started to worsen.

Thanks for pointing out for me that government programs to stop alcoholism and drug use don't work. I don't have facts like the one you sited. Thank you. One would expect that your government would stop those handouts, now that they see they don't work. But it appears the prevailing theory among both our governments is that if it ("it" being programs and laws to do anything from disarming criminals to stopping drug use) didn't work last year, and it didnt' work the year before, or the year before, or even since it started, the only alternative to societal collapse is to do it again this year, more if possible. And they're still surprised when "it" doesn't work, in fact "it" usually works in controvention to what they were planning to achieve.

Adrian

If we are on the same topic of teachers helping kids, then I don't get paid any extra to do so. Teachers becoming involved in their students lives will cost the tax payers zilch as it has for years.

My point remains the same. It hasn't happened yet, so what makes you think it will ever happen.

Adrian, you are reading more into this than what I have written. I never said the gov.'t needs to be involved, but I do think there needs to be some type of intervention. What kind remains to be seen.

Drug tests in school... I wonder what's next.

Schools are here to provide education. With implementing drug tests government/school admits that school is not capable of conducting proper drug education. I find that sad.

What they do is very sort-term. Kids should stop doing drugs because they don't want to do them and not because they want to do them but are scared of drug tests. The moment they are out of school, they will start doing them again. Such tests will make school records look better but will not really reduce drug taking.

Instead of introducing school drug tests they should work on school drug education programs.

What is your point? If you want to help kids beyond educating them in school, go for it! I'll support you 100 percent! If however, you want to parent them with taxpayer money, I'm afraid we stand on opposite sides of the issue. Schools are for learning, not for the state (or its teachers) to mold children into what it considers to be ideal people. That's a job for their parents, and if their parents aren't doing the job, then its not the taxpayers job to fill that void through the schools.

I don't know of any off-hand, but my guess is there are quite a few out-reach programs that function (or try to function) in Harlem and Jersey City. If the programs aren't wanted however, that's a different story.

You keep telling me (at least, that's how I'm reading this) how the private sector can't take care of unwanted kids, and how just letting them drift is undesireable. What's the alternative? If the parents aren't doing it, and the private sector isn't doing it, who is left to intervene?

I'm assuming you're quoting the Constitution. However, you should know that the Constitution is superceded by the Bill Of Rights. Amendment 4 should ban mandatory drug testing in schools.

This is a good solution, but not the best. The problem with this solution lies in the fact that it's a parent's responsibility to keep kids off drugs, not the local school's responsibility. If they want to present drugs as a topic for class discussion, I'm fine with that, but they should at least be willing to allow discussion of things like aboriginal drug use and its lack of deleterious effects on those cultures, or the murders that have occurred during the war on drugs. If they want to present (or allow to be presented) both sides of the issue, in an unbiased fashion great. If they want to present some sanatized, dumbed down picture of the noble, fearless drug warriors, heroically saving the world from street-corner dealers, that I've got a problem with. But like you said, education is good. Its a great first step. (Note:I'm not going to get into a debate on drug use.)

Adrian

I never said that the taxpayers should fill the void. For some reason, you just assume that is what I meant. Therefore, it is a moot point.

Is it just me or is everyone here seeing a big difference in opinion between those at school and those who have left?

Not wanting to sound like a condascending prat but what you think abotu school when you're there and how you percieve it after you have left are 2 completely different things.

Adrian. Mouse is a teacher, I'm gfuessing she's been doing it longer than you've been at school so we can assume she knows what she's talking about.

I don't mean you're idealist in that you want to change the world just that you have a kinda skewed idea of how everything in the world should work that doesn't really happen in real life.

School isn't just for education. Along with other things, schools is one of the biggest factors that leads you into adult life. Outside classes it teaches you how to deal with the world and problems the more you go through school and basically for you to argue that drug testing in schools is a violation of human rights and deemign it more important than deterring people from doing them, catchign people who are on drugs and keeping it out of the schools is daft.

Out of interest. I'm not insinuating in any way that you're living on 5th avenue or whatever but it sounds like you're in a pretty cushy position compared to alot of people and I'd just like to know how much drug use and serious violence goes on where you stay and how many people you personally know who've wrecked their lives due to it?

I never said ANYTHING about helping them with taxpayers money, that is my point. Teachers do it b/c they want too, not because they have too.

Jim, don't feel bad because I was thinking the same thing. People's views tend to change once they are faced with the real world.