France threatened by Islamists

mreto · #31 03-19-2004, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Bon Jovi

The best way to resolve this is to educate these people.

You of all people Adrian know I never pussyfoot about issues and shocking as it may sound to some people, Islamic fundamentalists are nothing more than members of the worlds biggest cult and sadly, alot of their ideals are shared by Muslims who are less extreme but still believe it.

Am I assuming too much here? I'm not sayign every single Muslim follows or agrees with the fundamentalists but put it this way.

I live in a place that has its fair share of tension between Protestants and Catholics which has stemmed from the troubles in Ulster. Now up until a few years ago I thought nothing of loyalist paramilitaries killign catholics "in the name of the cause" because that's what i believed was right.

I'm not particularly proud of the fact but then again I'm not ashamed of it either, That was what I believed. Am I a member of the paramilitaries? No but I still agreed with their ideals just as many people I know did/ still do and likewise, catholics agreed with the IRA killing Protestants.

and why? because thats what we thought was right, don't question it, don't think abou tit. they are the enemy so **** them.

As I say I used to agree with it up till a point where I thought, you know what, it's all bullshit I'm wanting nothign more to do with this. there were several reasons for this but actually knowing people caught up in all the **** that goes on over in Ulster and hearing 1st hand what goes on was a big factor of it and actually starting to question it all was another.

Most people won't question it however unless they are educated and shownt hat it's not right and it's not the only way. Tough job but opinios such as my own can be changed with time and education.

If it can happen to me, it can happen to Muslims who believe the fundamentalists are actually doing their religion a favour.

In turn less and less people will be getting brought up with these ideals and less and less of them will become fundamentalists and will stop supporting and cheering on these animals.

once the terrorists lose the support of the people the game is up.

that's a good and interresting post jim!
but to be able to educate them, they must have a reason to listen to us.
as long as the western world supports isreal, the muslims will always think the western world is trying to oppress them.
and i don't know anybody who would listen to somebody who tries to oppress them and suddenly says: "don't do that, that's better for you!"

Jim Bon Jovi · #32 03-19-2004, 04:34 PM

I think we should leave them all to fight amongst themselves espescially Israel but thats ot an option as all it's going to do is turn our friends there against us without actually guaranteeing that the people who hate us just now will stop doing so.

mreto · #33 03-19-2004, 04:42 PM

yeah that's true. and i wasn't saying that stop supporting isreal would turn out good. i was only saying that as long as we do not stop supporting them, they will never ever listen to us.

plus i think that some support isn't bad, but at the moment isreal can do almost anything they want with the US backing them up. without this help, isreal would be lost probably. and i think if you help a country, you should also say "stop" when this country does somethig that goes to far. somehow nobody dares to stop isreal.

if you say we should stand together against the terrorsist, we should also stand together against other countries doing wrong things. one of them being isreal at the time.

Mousebounce · #34 03-19-2004, 04:44 PM

Quote:

i agree that all the western countries are possible targets. but the organisation who did that in madrid (or claims that they did it) say: targets are USA, england, italy, japan and australia. spain isn't a target anymore at the moment, cause they want to give the new government the chance to pull back the troups from iraq. and it's a different organisation that's threatening france. so it surely has something to do with the war and whether your country took part in it or not.

And terrorists are known for that fact that they always tell the truth.

What you hear, and what actually happens may be two different things. Nobody even knows for sure yet who is responsible for the Madrid bombings. Just because someone comes out and takes credit for it doesn't mean a thing. It works to their advantage to make you think that the war was the reason. I still think them using the war with Iraq is another convienent excuse. Religion is the driving force, as it usually always is.

Jim Bon Jovi · #35 03-19-2004, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mreto

yeah that's true. and i wasn't saying that stop supporting isreal would turn out good. i was only saying that as long as we do not stop supporting them, they will never ever listen to us.

plus i think that some support isn't bad, but at the moment isreal can do almost anything they want with the US backing them up. without this help, isreal would be lost probably. and i think if you help a country, you should also say "stop" when this country does somethig that goes to far. somehow nobody dares to stop isreal.

if you say we should stand together against the terrorsist, we should also stand together against other countries doing wrong things. one of them being isreal at the time.

It's because there's too many Jews in power and with influence in America. You can't do much about it or else you'll get your fingers burned by time the elections come.

Mousebounce · #36 03-19-2004, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Bon Jovi

Quote:

Originally Posted by mreto

yeah that's true. and i wasn't saying that stop supporting isreal would turn out good. i was only saying that as long as we do not stop supporting them, they will never ever listen to us.

plus i think that some support isn't bad, but at the moment isreal can do almost anything they want with the US backing them up. without this help, isreal would be lost probably. and i think if you help a country, you should also say "stop" when this country does somethig that goes to far. somehow nobody dares to stop isreal.

if you say we should stand together against the terrorsist, we should also stand together against other countries doing wrong things. one of them being isreal at the time.

It's because there's too many Jews in power and with influence in America. You can't do much about it or else you'll get your fingers burned by time the elections come.

You hit the nail on the head with that statement!

mreto · #37 03-19-2004, 04:53 PM

yeah, i also think you should not believe everything blindly. but the organisation that now claims that they did organise these terroristic acts is the same organisation that said one year ago, when the war in iraq started that these countries will have to pay for it with their own blood. and it's also the same organisation that said that 11 would be the number the western world would never forget.

usa: 9/11, madrid: 3/11

you think that's just coincidence? i don't think so, cause these acts were planed at least 5 or 6 month before. they've choosen this date because it was also an 11th and because of the elections that were right afterwards and because it was one year after the war started.

plus they seem to reach their goals.

Jim Bon Jovi · #38 03-19-2004, 04:58 PM

with regards to reaching their goals. Spain was a relatively easy target with regards to making them pull out troops.

I seriously doubt America or the UK would be pullign troops out if it had happened here hence why they went for a softer target.

More worryingly is that there's rumours circulating that Poland and a couple of other countries are pullign troops out.

Nothing deters terrorists better than giving them what they want eh?

Mousebounce · #39 03-19-2004, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mreto

yeah, i also think you should not believe everything blindly. but the organisation that now claims that they did organise these terroristic acts is the same organisation that said one year ago, when the war in iraq started that these countries will have to pay for it with their own blood. and it's also the same organisation that said that 11 would be the number the western world would never forget.

usa: 9/11, madrid: 3/11

you think that's just coincidence? i don't think so, cause these acts were planed at least 5 or 6 month before. they've choosen this date because it was also an 11th and because of the elections that were right afterwards and because it was one year after the war started.

plus they seem to reach their goals.

I don't believe everything blindly, hence my speculation on the entire thing. As for that entire 11 connection, don't you think other organizations heard that threat too? Therefore to carry something out on the date would be pretty convienent as you would automatically associate it with one terrorist organization. It was broadcast for the world to hear. As I have said, I don't know the truth any more than you do, and I am not ruling out the war being a possibility, but I am also not ruling out that this would have happened regardless.

mreto · #40 03-19-2004, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Bon Jovi

Nothing deters terrorists better than giving them what they want eh?

that's exactly what i meant when i said that spain is making a mistake by pulling back troups. actually there's a lot more about this:

in poland they really fear terroristic acts in the near future, and i think they would also maybe pull back their troups if something like madrid would happen to them.

there are also many other countries that are afraid now. in athen there will be the olympic games this year, this could also be a possible target, cause it's mostly a western event and the whole western world will focus on it. and greece also supported the war (i think).

so with one act and a lot of threatening and blowing these acts up, you can eventually reach further goals even without further terroristic acts.

that's why these organisations make such statements whether they really did it or not. and that's why spain should not pull back their troups in my eyes.

France threatened by Islamists

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