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  #21  
Old 02-16-2004, 05:41 AM
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Default Re: Gorizia's wall coming down

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Originally Posted by manuit78
After World War II Italy was forced to surrender much of the region called Venezia Giulia to Yugoslavia and most of the Italian community was slaughtered by general Tito in a plan to "purify" the area.
Err, Italy was on the wrong side in first 4 years of the war, while Yugoslavia had one of more effective resistance and had good relations with both Soviet Union & UK/USA. Italy actually managed to get more territory than it deserved after WW2.

The only people "slaughtered" by the communists after WW2 were the traitors who fought against their own people on Italian and German side.
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  #22  
Old 02-16-2004, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by ponrauil
Good news though Jim's gonna be pissed 'cause these slovenians "pieces of trash" will be able to rush to the UK through Italy easier
Hmm, to ban or not to ban Jim?
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  #23  
Old 02-16-2004, 04:21 PM
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so the "foibe" is an invention....
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Old 02-16-2004, 05:17 PM
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in Italian:

http://www.romacivica.net/anpiroma/D...Dossier1a8.htm

http://digilander.libero.it/lefoibe/indexx.htm

It is historical evidence that roughly ?10-30? thusands of Italians (most of whom were civilians) residing in the area (be it under Italy, Slovenia, Croatia or Yugoslavia) were thrown, dead after being shot, or still alive and left dying there, in the foibe (fojbas, dolines) that are found numerous in the Carsian (sp?) region.

PS I was not trying to claim how much of the region rightfully "belonged" to Italy, Slovenia or Croatia. It is a fact that a lot of Slovenians lived in "Italian Venezia Giulia", and a lot of Italians lived in "Slovenian Venezia Giulia" and "Croatian/Slovenian Istra".
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Old 02-16-2004, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manuit78
so the "foibe" is an invention....
Probably not invention, but a retaliation.

During WW2, thousands of Slovenian families were forced to leave their homes in that area, plenty of people were killed in italian concentration camps.

These facts of yours completely disregard the larger historical context, esp. what was happening to Slovenians in Italy during the 20-year fascist rule.
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Old 02-16-2004, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter
Quote:
Originally Posted by ponrauil
Good news though Jim's gonna be pissed 'cause these slovenians "pieces of trash" will be able to rush to the UK through Italy easier
Hmm, to ban or not to ban Jim?
NOW that IS FUNNY

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  #27  
Old 02-16-2004, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter
Quote:
Originally Posted by manuit78
so the "foibe" is an invention....
Probably not invention, but a retaliation.

During WW2, thousands of Slovenian families were forced to leave their homes in that area, plenty of people were killed in italian concentration camps.

These facts of yours completely disregard the larger historical context, esp. what was happening to Slovenians in Italy during the 20-year fascist rule.
Maybe I didn't make myself clear enough. I'm not trying to say that Italy's "better" than Slovenia or stuff like that (which I'm not really interested in and which is pretty much pointless). I just pointed out that it's not only members of the military who were killed after Mussolini lost his position in 1943. It's history that Tito ordered his generals to have all non-Yugoslavs leave the region, no matter the means. Also a lot of non-Italian civilians were caught in the middle of that (Slovenians and Croatians living in borderline areas)

Having said this, who's denying Mussolini's conduct? I certainly don't. He even enforced racial laws in the late 1930's.
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  #28  
Old 02-16-2004, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manuit78
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter
Quote:
Originally Posted by manuit78
so the "foibe" is an invention....
Probably not invention, but a retaliation.

During WW2, thousands of Slovenian families were forced to leave their homes in that area, plenty of people were killed in italian concentration camps.

These facts of yours completely disregard the larger historical context, esp. what was happening to Slovenians in Italy during the 20-year fascist rule.
Maybe I didn't make myself clear enough. I'm not trying to say that Italy's "better" than Slovenia or stuff like that (which I'm not really interested in and which is pretty much pointless). I just pointed out that it's not only members of the military who were killed after Mussolini lost his position in 1943. It's history that Tito ordered his generals to have all non-Yugoslavs leave the region, no matter the means. Also a lot of non-Italian civilians were caught in the middle of that (Slovenians and Croatians living in borderline areas)

Having said this, who's denying Mussolini's conduct? I certainly don't. He even enforced racial laws in the late 1930's.
Good, then we have no disagreement here. I don't approve what Tito did after the war, but most of people over here are quite mad when people condemn Tito's & the communist party actions while failing to mention what led to the hatred that resulted in those mass killings...
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