Jovitalk - Bon Jovi Fan Community
Home Register Members FAQ
 

human rights

NBJ - Everything Else


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #41  
Old 01-10-2004, 05:51 PM
Mike's Avatar
Mike Mike is offline
Senior Member
Jovi Geek
 
Join Date: 29 Jul 2002
Location: London, England
Age: 41
Gender: male
Posts: 6,482
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bon Jovi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bon Jovi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bon Jovi
so ur honestly saying if u were there uw ouldnt have took a photo?
I would have thought it'd be a dangerous mission. I am still mistified as to why soldiers on duty are allowed to have cameras?

Quote:
lets be realistic here mate, like it or not its history int he making and i think an outcry about some personal photos is a bit hypocritical considering the length of time these prats turned their back to what he was doing to his people.
I think it is about consistency & not bringing ourselves down to their level.

I certainly don't think its hollywood material.
you've not actually denied you would have done the same thing in the situation
The thought wouldn't even have crossed my mind to take a camera on that mission.

Quote:
and if we're talkign consistency then the human rights mob aka those with far too much free time on their hands. should have been bawlign and shouting about saddam during his reign or they shouldn't be complaining just now. oneor the other man.
I'll think you'll find they did. They consistently moan about everything.

Put in Human Rights & Iraq on Google, there will be far more about it than Saddams pictures.
yeah but they were alot less vocal about mr huessein and the workings of his regime than what they are about this one. lets face it if they really wanted to these people could draw massive attention to pretty much anything they wanted but they pick and choose and alot of the time i think they do it to get a rise out of people.
Its more to do with the fact that ppl ignore them. They have been clamouring on about the human rights abuse in Iraq since 1991, but we have only been hearing about it recently because of the war.
__________________
http://mike_bonjovitour.tripod.com/

New Jersey is not just a state
- Its a religion!!
Reply With Quote

  #42  
Old 01-10-2004, 06:03 PM
spunkywho's Avatar
spunkywho spunkywho is offline
Senior Member
This Post Feels Right
 
Join Date: 05 Sep 2003
Location: seattle
Age: 51
Gender: female
Posts: 13,849
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ugly_queen_from_mars
Quote:
Originally Posted by marijke aka dutchjovifan
Well you made a point. Still I am glad Saddam was stoped before he became like Hitler or any other worse politic person.
huh? hitler became what he became in a period of a few years. hitler had allies, power and he had also the support of the germans - his own people.
I just cannot let this sit like it is. Hitler had about as much support from the Germans - his own people as Saddam had. Hitler was supported by the Nazi regime (seperate category from the Germans in general) and any other "support" he got from the general public was through threats to their and their families lifes. Very similar to Saddam. He too had his party and got the general population to "keep quiet" by threatening their lifes. NOT ALL GERMANS SUPPORTED HITLER!!!!!!!!!
__________________
Why won’t you say something now
Don’t leave me hanging
Cut me down
I miss the fire that was once in your eyes
Well come on and say something now
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 01-10-2004, 06:05 PM
Mike's Avatar
Mike Mike is offline
Senior Member
Jovi Geek
 
Join Date: 29 Jul 2002
Location: London, England
Age: 41
Gender: male
Posts: 6,482
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spunkywho
Quote:
Originally Posted by ugly_queen_from_mars
Quote:
Originally Posted by marijke aka dutchjovifan
Well you made a point. Still I am glad Saddam was stoped before he became like Hitler or any other worse politic person.
huh? hitler became what he became in a period of a few years. hitler had allies, power and he had also the support of the germans - his own people.
I just cannot let this sit like it is. Hitler had about as much support from the Germans - his own people as Saddam had. Hitler was supported by the Nazi regime (seperate category from the Germans in general) and any other "support" he got from the general public was through threats to their and their families lifes. Very similar to Saddam. He too had his party and got the general population to "keep quiet" by threatening their lifes. NOT ALL GERMANS SUPPORTED HITLER!!!!!!!!!
Not only a majority of Germans supported him (he had an extremely strong army) - but much of 'old Europe' did (the true old Europe - not Mr Rumsfelds old Europe).

Don't forget that Hitler was voted into power.
__________________
http://mike_bonjovitour.tripod.com/

New Jersey is not just a state
- Its a religion!!
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 01-10-2004, 06:09 PM
ugly_queen_from_mars's Avatar
ugly_queen_from_mars ugly_queen_from_mars is offline
Senior Member
It's my post
 
Join Date: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Greece
Age: 39
Gender: female
Posts: 4,897
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bon Jovi

it's like people in jail complaining about the conditions. guess what if u dont want to live in a **** manky cell u dont commit crimes.
I actually agree with that.

jails' meaning is not the examplary punishment but the reform of the criminals and the prevention of the crime (in some cases). also you seem to be forgetting the human factor and the reasons which may lead someone to commit a crime. and in a society that we want to believe that we have secured the human rights we can't have jails where people are being raped, abused, are victims of the drug dealers and also we should mention the wretched condition of the cells. if one of you accidentally hits, for example, a man with his car and he ends up in jail, after his discharge there is a good chance of having become a criminal. so in prisons there are also people who are not real criminals or the accusation was unfair and these people just because of the prisons' conditions finally become criminals. but besides that let's not forget that the criminals are also human beings so they are protected by the human rights that are constantly violated in prisons. so even if there was one chance that a criminal could be reformed now there is none.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 01-10-2004, 06:10 PM
spunkywho's Avatar
spunkywho spunkywho is offline
Senior Member
This Post Feels Right
 
Join Date: 05 Sep 2003
Location: seattle
Age: 51
Gender: female
Posts: 13,849
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike
Quote:
Originally Posted by spunkywho
Quote:
Originally Posted by ugly_queen_from_mars
Quote:
Originally Posted by marijke aka dutchjovifan
Well you made a point. Still I am glad Saddam was stoped before he became like Hitler or any other worse politic person.
huh? hitler became what he became in a period of a few years. hitler had allies, power and he had also the support of the germans - his own people.
I just cannot let this sit like it is. Hitler had about as much support from the Germans - his own people as Saddam had. Hitler was supported by the Nazi regime (seperate category from the Germans in general) and any other "support" he got from the general public was through threats to their and their families lifes. Very similar to Saddam. He too had his party and got the general population to "keep quiet" by threatening their lifes. NOT ALL GERMANS SUPPORTED HITLER!!!!!!!!!
Not only a majority of Germans supported him (he had an extremely strong army) - but much of 'old Europe' did (the true old Europe - not Mr Rumsfelds old Europe).

Don't forget that Hitler was voted into power.
Yes, he was voted into power, but that was before he started war and we all know why he was voted into power. NOT because he wanted to take over the world and kill all jews.

NO, the majority of Germans DID NOT support Hitler in any other way than to save their own lifes. FACT! Though, it sounds so much better the other way round. I am talking not talking about the time leading up to the war, but the time when he started carting jews off to the concentration camps and killed all civilians in his way.
__________________
Why won’t you say something now
Don’t leave me hanging
Cut me down
I miss the fire that was once in your eyes
Well come on and say something now
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 01-10-2004, 06:10 PM
Jim Bon Jovi Jim Bon Jovi is offline
Senior Member
Crush
 
Join Date: 31 Jul 2002
Location: In my secret bunker hiding from the invasion
Age: 37
Gender: male
Posts: 22,444
Send a message via MSN to Jim Bon Jovi
Default

you can't argue with history spunkywho and misguided as they may have been, the german people still took in and gave Hitler his power in the 1st place.

in a democracy you can't decide to do a bit of ethnic cleansing unless ur people agree with it and im pretty sure the people spitting on jews ont he street and terroising the gypsies etc... werent doing so out of fear.
__________________
the dude abides
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 01-10-2004, 06:11 PM
spunkywho's Avatar
spunkywho spunkywho is offline
Senior Member
This Post Feels Right
 
Join Date: 05 Sep 2003
Location: seattle
Age: 51
Gender: female
Posts: 13,849
Default

A strong army is not an indication of support. These kids were drafted, there was not much of an option to go or not. If you didn't go, your mother was dragged off. I don't call that support.
__________________
Why won’t you say something now
Don’t leave me hanging
Cut me down
I miss the fire that was once in your eyes
Well come on and say something now
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 01-10-2004, 06:12 PM
ugly_queen_from_mars's Avatar
ugly_queen_from_mars ugly_queen_from_mars is offline
Senior Member
It's my post
 
Join Date: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Greece
Age: 39
Gender: female
Posts: 4,897
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike
Quote:
Originally Posted by spunkywho
Quote:
Originally Posted by ugly_queen_from_mars
Quote:
Originally Posted by marijke aka dutchjovifan
Well you made a point. Still I am glad Saddam was stoped before he became like Hitler or any other worse politic person.
huh? hitler became what he became in a period of a few years. hitler had allies, power and he had also the support of the germans - his own people.
I just cannot let this sit like it is. Hitler had about as much support from the Germans - his own people as Saddam had. Hitler was supported by the Nazi regime (seperate category from the Germans in general) and any other "support" he got from the general public was through threats to their and their families lifes. Very similar to Saddam. He too had his party and got the general population to "keep quiet" by threatening their lifes. NOT ALL GERMANS SUPPORTED HITLER!!!!!!!!!
Not only a majority of Germans supported him (he had an extremely strong army) - but much of 'old Europe' did (the true old Europe - not Mr Rumsfelds old Europe).

Don't forget that Hitler was voted into power.
exactly. mike answered :P
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 01-10-2004, 06:13 PM
Mike's Avatar
Mike Mike is offline
Senior Member
Jovi Geek
 
Join Date: 29 Jul 2002
Location: London, England
Age: 41
Gender: male
Posts: 6,482
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spunkywho
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike
Quote:
Originally Posted by spunkywho
Quote:
Originally Posted by ugly_queen_from_mars
Quote:
Originally Posted by marijke aka dutchjovifan
Well you made a point. Still I am glad Saddam was stoped before he became like Hitler or any other worse politic person.
huh? hitler became what he became in a period of a few years. hitler had allies, power and he had also the support of the germans - his own people.
I just cannot let this sit like it is. Hitler had about as much support from the Germans - his own people as Saddam had. Hitler was supported by the Nazi regime (seperate category from the Germans in general) and any other "support" he got from the general public was through threats to their and their families lifes. Very similar to Saddam. He too had his party and got the general population to "keep quiet" by threatening their lifes. NOT ALL GERMANS SUPPORTED HITLER!!!!!!!!!
Not only a majority of Germans supported him (he had an extremely strong army) - but much of 'old Europe' did (the true old Europe - not Mr Rumsfelds old Europe).

Don't forget that Hitler was voted into power.
Yes, he was voted into power, but that was before he started war and we all know why he was voted into power. NOT because he wanted to take over the world and kill all jews.

NO, the majority of Germans DID NOT support Hitler in any other way than to save their own lifes. FACT!
How is that a fact??

Quote:
Though, it sounds so much better the other way round. I am talking not talking about the time leading up to the war, but the time when he started carting jews off to the concentration camps and killed all civilians in his way.
What are you basing this on?? Do you think he would have been such a threat without the support of his people??

A lot of ppl in Europe where supportive of national socialism (i.e. Naziism) at the time.
__________________
http://mike_bonjovitour.tripod.com/

New Jersey is not just a state
- Its a religion!!
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 01-10-2004, 06:17 PM
spunkywho's Avatar
spunkywho spunkywho is offline
Senior Member
This Post Feels Right
 
Join Date: 05 Sep 2003
Location: seattle
Age: 51
Gender: female
Posts: 13,849
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bon Jovi
you can't argue with history spunkywho and misguided as they may have been, the german people still took in and gave Hitler his power in the 1st place.

in a democracy you can't decide to do a bit of ethnic cleansing unless ur people agree with it and im pretty sure the people spitting on jews ont he street and terroising the gypsies etc... werent doing so out of fear.
but you are the ones arguing with history. once Hitler was in full force, there was NO democracy. My parents grew up under the Hitler regime, I have an endless number of stories to go by and I KNOW the majority did not support ethnic cleansing, or did even know about it, until the White Rose started going public with it and were killed because of it.

There is no misguidance when someone kills your siblings, just for you to keep your mouth shut. That is not support and has nothing to do with misguidance. Now, for the nazi regime, I don't even want to go there - they were just evil.

As far as terrorizing jews and gypsies, that was done by the nazis - not the general germans. True, the nazies had a huge followship, but not everyone was a nazi. You want to go off about nazis, I am all with you, but you cannot lump nazis and germans in one pot.
__________________
Why won’t you say something now
Don’t leave me hanging
Cut me down
I miss the fire that was once in your eyes
Well come on and say something now
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11.
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.