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  #41  
Old 06-20-2004, 11:56 AM
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**** Dawn that would literally destroy millions of trillions of dollars

a few points that folk have brought up. The Arab world actually has much less control and we consume much less from them than we did 30 years ago. They're nowhere near asd powerful as they used to be.

Saying that. the very 1st thing I would do is have nothign to do with Israel, let it fend for itself. I'm pretty sure it's tactics would change rapidly when it doesn't have the US standing behind it and apologise to the Arab world.

I wouldn't withdraw troops from anywhere. I genuinely believe that there are troops where they are needed.

As for terrorism... how exactly do you deal with an invisible enemy? That's somethign alot of critics of Bush and Blair seem to forget. This isn't a tiny geographical area like Ulster or the south of Spain, This is the whole world we're talkign about and these people have no solid aims and objectives other than causing as much ahrm and destruction as possible and ultimately, the destruction of the west and our way of life.

I would be alot more ruthless with my treatment of people who are caught and we know they had **** going on. i'm, not talking about folk hitting keywords in text messagesor emails. im talkign people we know are implicated in action or helping them and THEY WOULD be made an example of.

Nothing will stop a man doing something more effectively than putting the fear of God in him.
Jim , money is money , I would pay millions and trillions to prevent terrorism + death.

Dawn
Poverty breeds terrorism and death
Poverty and lack of education breeds terrorism. I do not believe that the sole aim of Islam is to breed terrorism but no one can deny that the amount of control it demands over it's followers is phenomenal and it leads to terrorism very easilly as alot of people from Arab countries have a poor standard of education and will not or cannot question what they're being fed.

there's a big reason why Fidel Castro controls the accesability of the internet in Cuba and why the Chinese and Korean governments control their media. Don't let people see the truth or make their own minds up and they follow what they're told.
Unfortunately what we call education for another country is seen as brainwashing, interference to them .

Dawn
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  #42  
Old 06-20-2004, 12:01 PM
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this can change cultures forever....
this is simply a detail, but what you would call "change of culture" is PART of the culture of a country, in fact i think the changes do really DEFINE the culture!

this reminds me of the german spelling reform, where some guys said that the culture would be lost!
if another country had not gone within another country then certain major changes would not have happened to the culture. Countries seem to allow this to happen with no thought to what the people of the country want. Ie Look at the spread of Mcdonalds,most people in these countries cant feed or afford education but theres a USA Mcdonalds.

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  #43  
Old 06-20-2004, 06:17 PM
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this can change cultures forever....
this is simply a detail, but what you would call "change of culture" is PART of the culture of a country, in fact i think the changes do really DEFINE the culture!

this reminds me of the german spelling reform, where some guys said that the culture would be lost!
if another country had not gone within another country then certain major changes would not have happened to the culture. Countries seem to allow this to happen with no thought to what the people of the country want. Ie Look at the spread of Mcdonalds,most people in these countries cant feed or afford education but theres a USA Mcdonalds.

Dawn
That is capitalism for you

But what is wrong about experiencing the best part from different countries? (Not talking about McDonalds here.... Altho it has its moments).

Do you think the invasion of the Romans helped or hindered this country?

Would we have tournaments like Euro 2004, or be allowed to watch open air American rock bands?

And what about countries that do not have access to certain resources? They are penalised into having to pay heavy export / import duties - something that a free market tries to avoid.
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  #44  
Old 06-20-2004, 06:29 PM
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Just because people have different views about the situation does not make them in the dark. In this day and age, information is readily available to those who seek it, so propaganda only goes as far as people let it.
exactly!!


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Ie Look at the spread of Mcdonalds,most people in these countries cant feed or afford education but theres a USA Mcdonalds.

Dawn
are you sure? Can you give me an example? I just find that very hard to believe. If there is no money, there is no reason for McDonalds to open shop.
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  #45  
Old 06-21-2004, 12:52 AM
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there's a big reason why Fidel Castro controls the accesability of the internet in Cuba and why the Chinese and Korean governments control their media. Don't let people see the truth or make their own minds up and they follow what they're told.
lol that's kind of funny saying that about cuba and china while the vast majority of US people don't have the slightest clue about their government's actions.
we have the brightest (american) example on this thread of what propaganda, misinformation and controlling the media can do so why bother talking about cuba and china while the "civilised" america does the same thing to its people?
Just because people have different views about the situation does not make them in the dark. In this day and age, information is readily available to those who seek it, so propaganda only goes as far as people let it.

yes but the problem is what the government does to control the media and what individuals there are willing to do in order to avoid propaganda. some people don't have the time nor the right education to look further and learn more than what they are served. propaganda is for the masses and it's a very effective practice for the governements especially during war times.
saying that the US invaded iraq because saddam was an evil monster and he should fall from power because he was a threat to the world is far from every political analysis you can't think of and i don't see it as a different view about the situation. (that doesn't mean that she can't speak it out)
well i also find some peoples' opinions about how every islamist is brought up to be an evil terrorist extreme and that's the strongest propaganda because it's the only way to justify the invasions in middle east.
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  #46  
Old 06-21-2004, 05:24 AM
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saying that the US invaded iraq because saddam was an evil monster and he should fall from power because he was a threat to the world is far from every political analysis you can't think of and i don't see it as a different view about the situation.
I wouldn't take anything donnanj says as information fed to Americans. You are right, that IS propaganda, but a very very basic one - most people see further than that. I realize she is a very poor representative of the US - and yes, too many people think like her, but you also see other representatives of the US on this board. Don't assume anybody who doesn't share donnanj's propaganda, that they are highly educated or go out of their ways to find 'the truth'.
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  #47  
Old 06-21-2004, 05:28 AM
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saying that the US invaded iraq because saddam was an evil monster and he should fall from power because he was a threat to the world is far from every political analysis you can't think of and i don't see it as a different view about the situation.
I wouldn't take anything donnanj says as information fed to Americans. You are right, that IS propaganda, but a very very basic one - most people see further than that. I realize she is a very poor representative of the US - and yes, too many people think like her, but you also see other representatives of the US on this board. Don't assume anybody who doesn't share donnanj's propaganda, that they are highly educated or go out of their ways to find 'the truth'.
I don't know who you think you are. We were asked our opinions on what we would do. I gave mine. Because they don't agree with yours you have the right to insult me? I am not a poor representative of the US, because I am NOT representing the US. I am stating my OPINIONS and my FEELINGS on what has just transpired. If you don't agree with my views, that is fine. No need to insult me. I am not the ONLY one who feels this way.
Another thing. I am very educated and I DO read and know what is going on. I just have a different view on things then you. I guess you are one of those people, who think their view is the only view. You are right and everyone else is wrong.
Whose "truth" are you talking about? Yours? I see a different "truth" and that is my right.
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  #48  
Old 06-21-2004, 06:20 AM
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some people don't have the time nor the right education to look further and learn more than what they are served. propaganda is for the masses and it's a very effective practice for the governements especially during war times.
This may have been true back in the day, but with the invention of the internet, you don't exactly need a stellar education nor mass amounts of time to research beyond the propaganda that is being served. I think people need to get off of their high horses and realize that their beliefs and opinions are just that, their beliefs and opinions. It doesn't necessarily mean that certain people are victims of propaganda, but instead maybe they choose to see things differently than yourself. This isn't aimed at you in particular, but anyone who thinks that their way is the right way with no regards to anyone else's way of thinking.

When I first signed on to this board I had one belief regarding the USA. After seeing different sides, my thinking is a bit more open. I think people need to be a bit more tolerant and understanding of why others so vehemently feel the way they do about certain issues. This works both ways. So maybe you could try to see where someone like Donna is coming from, and she do the same for you. There has to be a middle ground, well in a perfect world there would be.
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  #49  
Old 06-21-2004, 06:34 PM
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some people don't have the time nor the right education to look further and learn more than what they are served. propaganda is for the masses and it's a very effective practice for the governements especially during war times.
This may have been true back in the day, but with the invention of the internet, you don't exactly need a stellar education nor mass amounts of time to research beyond the propaganda that is being served. I think people need to get off of their high horses and realize that their beliefs and opinions are just that, their beliefs and opinions. It doesn't necessarily mean that certain people are victims of propaganda, but instead maybe they choose to see things differently than yourself. This isn't aimed at you in particular, but anyone who thinks that their way is the right way with no regards to anyone else's way of thinking.

When I first signed on to this board I had one belief regarding the USA. After seeing different sides, my thinking is a bit more open. I think people need to be a bit more tolerant and understanding of why others so vehemently feel the way they do about certain issues. This works both ways. So maybe you could try to see where someone like Donna is coming from, and she do the same for you. There has to be a middle ground, well in a perfect world there would be.
Thank You Mouse.
The thing is I do look at other views and I do take them into consideration when forming my own opinions. My comments were directly relating to the question at hand.
What was said above is exactly why I shy away from getting into political debates. More often then not, they turn into political battles. Each side trying to force the other to see things their way. I am not interested in getting anyone to agree with me.

You know, I do not agree with 100% of what our current administration does. I didn't even vote for Pres. Bush. I am not a Republican. I am not a Democrat. I fall somwehere inbetween. I look at all issues and make my decision based on what is closest to my beliefs. When I was younger, in my 20's to early 30's I was way more liberal in my thinking. As I got older, married and had children, my views on a lot of things changed. I do not buy into propaganda. There are certain news stations I will not watch because that is what they spew. I don't read the paper on a daily basis. What I do, do is look up things on the internet. I read, read and read. This is how I form my opinions on things. If I am interested in a particular issue, I will look it up and read all sides of it.
So, on that note, Spunk, I respectfully agree to disagree with you. I will never say you are wrong, just that I have a different view. I ask the same of you. I ask that you not insult me because I oppose you.

Have a nice day!
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  #50  
Old 06-22-2004, 12:52 AM
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saying that the US invaded iraq because saddam was an evil monster and he should fall from power because he was a threat to the world is far from every political analysis you can't think of and i don't see it as a different view about the situation.
I wouldn't take anything donnanj says as information fed to Americans. You are right, that IS propaganda, but a very very basic one - most people see further than that. I realize she is a very poor representative of the US - and yes, too many people think like her, but you also see other representatives of the US on this board. Don't assume anybody who doesn't share donnanj's propaganda, that they are highly educated or go out of their ways to find 'the truth'.
no i didn't say that. i know there are people who doesn't believe that kind of propaganda but as i said there are people who don't have the time to look further or they don't want or even they don't have the right education. right education doesn't necessarily mean high if you know what i mean. that doesn't apply only to american people of course but to every people and every country that uses propaganda.
i don't generalise, i know there are people who think different and especially now that this war is going nowhere.
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