Jesus Christ

Jag · #**101** 03-21-2004, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tashjbj

Quote:

Originally Posted by joviscout

Tash imagine what the world would have been like if it wasnt for the bible. Thats where all our values come from and yeah there in the envoroment but thats cause we have followed these words for 3000+ years. It all comes from there hence my guide thing that i was talking about the bible being a map. Im sorry but i dont have much faith in humanity if we were left to our own domain to make our own socity it would be hell there would be no rules think who would be wise enought to think them up? no one selfishness is a inheriant human feature this place would be hell or the nearest thing to it and i belive god knew this was coming. Its also worth noting that the further we move from the bibles word the worse the world is becomeing (wars, viruses, george bush...).

I think more wars have been fought because of the Bible. Look at the crusades, that was all because the Christian world thought they were the best one, or the Romans for that matter. I think if you leave people be then you will follow what you know is right.
Gospel? Great music, but not because of what it preaches.

then why is gospel great?

joviscout · #**102** 03-21-2004, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tashjbj

Quote:

Originally Posted by joviscout

Tash imagine what the world would have been like if it wasnt for the bible. Thats where all our values come from and yeah there in the envoroment but thats cause we have followed these words for 3000+ years. It all comes from there hence my guide thing that i was talking about the bible being a map. Im sorry but i dont have much faith in humanity if we were left to our own domain to make our own socity it would be hell there would be no rules think who would be wise enought to think them up? no one selfishness is a inheriant human feature this place would be hell or the nearest thing to it and i belive god knew this was coming. Its also worth noting that the further we move from the bibles word the worse the world is becomeing (wars, viruses, george bush...).

I think more wars have been fought because of the Bible. Look at the crusades, that was all because the Christian world thought they were the best one, or the Romans for that matter. I think if you leave people be then you will follow what you know is right.
Gospel? Great music, but not because of what it preaches.

Can you blame the word of god for what humans have chose to do with it?. And lets face it most of the wars are for the base of greed or defence very little are by the bible. I dont deny that some are cause of conflict in what people belive but theres the key what people belive not what god says. Theres been one book no others so how can people fight over it? cause thats out nature most arent willing to take others opinions on board and unfotunatly we got people who will kill for there own opinion to be the superiour. I dont think we can blame god for that however only ourselves.

allmike · #**103** 03-22-2004, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tashjbj

Quote:

Originally Posted by joviscout

Tash imagine what the world would have been like if it wasnt for the bible. Thats where all our values come from and yeah there in the envoroment but thats cause we have followed these words for 3000+ years. It all comes from there hence my guide thing that i was talking about the bible being a map. Im sorry but i dont have much faith in humanity if we were left to our own domain to make our own socity it would be hell there would be no rules think who would be wise enought to think them up? no one selfishness is a inheriant human feature this place would be hell or the nearest thing to it and i belive god knew this was coming. Its also worth noting that the further we move from the bibles word the worse the world is becomeing (wars, viruses, george bush...).

I think more wars have been fought because of the Bible. Look at the crusades, that was all because the Christian world thought they were the best one, or the Romans for that matter. I think if you leave people be then you will follow what you know is right.
Gospel? Great music, but not because of what it preaches.

How can blame it for religion, so now all the terorist happeing coz of muslim religon?. I think it is poeple who doesn't understan what there religon means and what it says. They just use religon for there own selfish purpose. They would have done it if there are no religion in the world. Basicaly all religion preaches peace not war.

Jag · #**104** 03-23-2004, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allmike

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tashjbj

Quote:

Originally Posted by joviscout

Tash imagine what the world would have been like if it wasnt for the bible. Thats where all our values come from and yeah there in the envoroment but thats cause we have followed these words for 3000+ years. It all comes from there hence my guide thing that i was talking about the bible being a map. Im sorry but i dont have much faith in humanity if we were left to our own domain to make our own socity it would be hell there would be no rules think who would be wise enought to think them up? no one selfishness is a inheriant human feature this place would be hell or the nearest thing to it and i belive god knew this was coming. Its also worth noting that the further we move from the bibles word the worse the world is becomeing (wars, viruses, george bush...).

I think more wars have been fought because of the Bible. Look at the crusades, that was all because the Christian world thought they were the best one, or the Romans for that matter. I think if you leave people be then you will follow what you know is right.
Gospel? Great music, but not because of what it preaches.

How can blame it for religion, so now all the terorist happeing coz of muslim religon?. I think it is poeple who doesn't understan what there religon means and what it says. They just use religon for there own selfish purpose. They would have done it if there are no religion in the world. Basicaly all religion preaches peace not war.

'preaches' that is tone of the biggest problem religion has

davefan · #**105** 03-23-2004, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inge

So, let me think, when you murder, steal or whatever, when it comes to salvation , all you have to do is become a christian?

So, one person dies on a cross, which in that days was very common, he can arange for me I will be forgiven whatever I do.
I know I sound a bit sarcastic, but it`s weird.
This man preached love and forgifness, peace ansd so on. That`s good, but there have been more worldleaders, preachers who told us that.

And, maybe I am wrong , but do you really think there is a guy upthere on a cloud, telling : this man I forgive, this one should be punished, that`s a good or bad guy?

I used to believe in God and the Son, but when I take a good look around at the world, I don`t think so.If there is a god, he is very very unfair!!!!

I totally agree with you except the last part.
I never really believed the father son thing, I still don`t know if jesus was anything special or just an other leader. maybe the whole christian church isn`t different than any other sect.
I do belive there is some kind of god, I mean nothing comes out of nothing, lurning about evolution and all the theories about the univers, I always think of course earth is just one planet out of so many and it`s not been built in 7 days but whatever was the origin of the universe is "god" cause whatever was the first thing must come from somewhere.

anyway the shit that gos on around the world, well thats selve made. And I think no matter what kind of "god" it really is, he might think "hey I started the whole think, helped the evolution now you got to make the best out of it" human start wars and hunger and all of that our fault.

so all I know is that god is not the bible, cause the bible was written by man. There ideas their wishes, none of them had any contact to god, it wasn#t even Jesus who wrote the bible, just man who tells you that they even wrote what Jesus wanted them too? they wrote it after he was dead.
and he died to take our sins? hey Adam and eve noone belives in that thing anymore it`s impossible

Davesta · #**106** 03-23-2004, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Bon Jovi

No bother davesta I'll try and put it into as much detail as possible though I've got to goto work soon so it'll need to be sharp and I'll probably forget little details since I've not wroteit out for so long but here goes.

K 1st you need to get rid of any preconcieved ideas of God being some sort of being that has created or can control the physical world.

Being an immaterial being ie not physically existing, pretty much convinces me that God has no bearing on the physical world.

The idea of an immaterial being is pretty hard for people to comprehend but if you know anythign about Plato's theory of the forms then it's a little easier.

You cannot touch, physically feel, see , hear and prior to common religious belief, hold a conversation with God. There never has been and never will be empirical (ie physical evidence) for the religious idea of God existing. Saying the Earth is too complex a thing to happen by chance is just an assumption not an actual fact.

Note how I'm referring to the being as God and not him, he or she since God is immaterial and as a result has no gender.

Now with this idea of God not actually existing physically we can move on.

Everyone has different ideas of what God is and what God stands for. If you've got this far and can actually think of God as not being of the physical world then start thinking about what God means to YOU.

It's different for every single person but God means something to everyone wether it be faith, hope or even the idea that flying a plane into a building will be rewarding in the afterlife.

What god means to you is what God is.

This bits really hard to get peoples head round but bear with me k.

If God (NOT THE DUDE WITH BEARD but the actual ideals of what you hold God as) exists in your own mind then God exists.

Before you start sayign this is bullshit, read it again and think about it.

What God means to you personally exists even if you're the only person in the world who thinks that exact way. As I said, God means something different to every single person.

Now this is where people start saying well i suppose Santa must exist if I believe in him but if Santa or any other imaginary being did exist, they would exist in the physical world and as far fetched as it may be, you can go all around the world and prove that Santa, the easter bunny, tooth fairy and co do not actually exist whereas god being of another realm does.

Told you the idea was hard to swallow but go back and read it again. If you can get the idea of God not being a physical force or being then it's not that hard to understand.

Thats about the gist of it. as I say, It'll be missing bits and pieces here and there but if you've got any questions give us a shout and I'll answer them. It might even jog my memory to go into more detail.

Yeah, that makes sense! I've kinda thought of something like that myself to be honest. Good post Jimbob!

mreto · #**107** 03-23-2004, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joviscout

Tash imagine what the world would have been like if it wasnt for the bible.

pretty different. no crushades for example. probably not a medieval time with no improvements at all because the people thought the only thing that matters was life after death and therefore didn't try to change anything before death. but probably we would just have a different religion now... nobody knows.

Quote:

we have followed these words for 3000+ years.

and otherwise we would have followed another book for 3000 years maybe. 3000 years, so what? does that make the book more "true"?

Quote:

Im sorry but i dont have much faith in humanity if we were left to our own domain to make our own socity it would be hell there would be no rules think who would be wise enought to think them up?

well it was written by men, so i don't get what you mean here! or do you think it was written by God himself or what?

Quote:

Its also worth noting that the further we move from the bibles word the worse the world is becomeing (wars, viruses, george bush...)

all things above were just opinions where you can agree or not. but this here is simply wrong, cause now in the time with less religion in the western world than ever before, there are a lot less wars or epidemic plagues than ever before! since over 1000 years there has never been such a long period without a war in middle europe as we have now since ww2. there have been pest, cholera etc. etc. here that sometimes killed over 50% of the population in the medieval age, where people were more religious than ever.... i could go on and on.

Mongoose · #**108** 03-23-2004, 03:43 PM

why does suddenly everyone care about Jesus..? Sounds like the advertising for Mr Gibson's film is working

Mousebounce · #**109** 03-23-2004, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mongoose

why does suddenly everyone care about Jesus..? Sounds like the advertising for Mr Gibson's film is working

Highest grossing rated R movie of all time.

Mongoose · #**110** 03-23-2004, 10:36 PM

indeed, a publicity success. Wonder how much Mel has made from these "debates"

Jesus Christ

NBJ - Everything Else