let's talk about george bush

Not quite true, is it? You've spewed so much libertarian and pro-gun propaganda, that it's quite hard to believe you'd come up with all that on your own. And it just so happens that your family shares your values. How odd.

No, it doesn't pain me, I just don't believe you. I'd like for you to pack a bag, go out to the world and find out how it works. And read some other material than Little Women. There are many other writers out there besides Marx. Maybe you should read a little of socialisms history and how it worked in Soviet Union.

And listen to Jim when it comes to democracy. If you have problems with healthcare, maybe the government should stop providing you with electricity, roads and any other infrastructure you need. That's all paid for with taxes. But I'm sure you have some sort of libertarian answer like "yes, but healthcare is a totally different thing, taxes should be used on infrastructure only".

I've said all I want to say, now I'm out of this discussion.

Ice

Jim:It's Das Kapital I can barely remember. I remember the Manifesto perfectly...interesting little book in a head-tilted-to-one-side,-eyebrow-raised sort of way. Also went out of my way to read biographies on Marx, Che and Castro too, histories of Cuba, Latin America. I think every youth must go through a fascination with Che, and I wanted to know what he was about before I went and put his mug on a tshirt.

Re:America As I've said before, they embraced the communist ideals of the 20th century (I quoted their party platforms to you, do you see NO similarities?). And there's plenty wrong with raising taxes on private citizens. If you've noticed though, we've already got government paying for some of our medicine, and the current crop of Democratic candidates want that "some" to balloon to "all." Much like *gasp* a certain other party we've been discussing. The Dems (primarily) share certain platforms with the communist party...like I said, they're not passing out the hammer/sickle flags yet. And BTW, I was being slightly humorous when I said they were short time away from sending the landlords to Siberia - my writing style runs to the slightly sarcastic/humorous, as you've seen.

Ice:And if I told it was I who got my family started on the idea of joining the shooting sports... I was actually quite the little lefty before I started picking up books...Or doesn't that fit into your definition of brainwashing?

I've read much of the history of socialism (see above). My favorite is Mig Pilot, about a famous fighter pilot in Russia. If you haven't read it, give it a try.

I would very much like to try an infrastructure where the free-market provided electricity and roads. I'd like to see how such a system would be run and paid for, and instead of just sticking to the status quo without question, I'm at least interested in trying an alternative. You can feel free to insult me for that now.

Adrian

From today's news-
You are so afraid of Socialism Adrian that you prefer people such as this?? I added the bold for emphasis since I happen to think this is the core of the problem.
__________________________________________

Former Bush Surgeon General Says He Was Muzzled

By REUTERS
Published: July 10, 2007
Filed at 12:42 p.m. ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The first U.S. surgeon general appointed by President George W. Bush accused his administration on Tuesday of political interference and muzzling him on key issues like embryonic stem cell research.

"Anything that doesn't fit into the political appointees' ideological, theological or political agenda is ignored, marginalized or simply buried," Dr. Richard Carmona, who served as the nation's top doctor from 2002 until 2006, told a House of Representatives panel.

"The problem with this approach is that in public health, as in a democracy, there is nothing worse than ignoring science, or marginalizing the voice of science for reasons driven by changing political winds. The job of surgeon general is to be the doctor of the nation, not the doctor of a political party," Carmona added.

Carmona said Bush administration political appointees censored his speeches and kept him from talking out publicly about certain issues. He mentioned political interference preventing him from discussing the science on embryonic stem cell research, contraceptives and his misgivings about the administration's embrace of "abstinence-only" sex education.

Carmona's comments came two days before a Senate committee is due to hold a hearing on Bush's nomination of Dr. James Holsinger, who faces Democratic criticism, as his successor. The administration allowed Carmona to finish his term as surgeon general last year without a replacement in place.

So where is it I stated I like George Bush? These words don't taste like mine... I measure all candidates by the yardstick of that old, outdated pesky thing called the Consitution, and 99% fall into the category of felon or treason.

I cannot in good conscience condone the actions of the current crop of Democrats or Republicans, though I find the Republicans about .1% less offensive.

Adrian

Since you have done some reading, Adrian, it is time for you to do some field studies.

Go on now!