Madeleine McCann

I think they do. They both involve selfish behaviour, irresponsibility, neglect and having no consideration for the welfare of others. The case of the parents is worse because at the very least the drunk driver could argue that he chose to drive while being not of sound mind. The parents were perfectly sober and made a conscious decision to leve their young children alone.


Precisely which is why you don't leave young children unattended.

I made no such judgement, I simply made a comment on one particular thing they did.



Of course not, that is a completely different case. You were seventeen which mean in all respects, except the strict guidelines of the law, you were an adult and able to reason and understand the consequences of your actions, the dangers present and you had the ability to take care of yorself. That's not the case for a three year old and two babies.



Where did I say the parents were wholly responsible. I made sure I always clarified that they shared in the responsibility for what happened, not that they were fully responsible. Please read what I write rather then misrepresenting what I wrote, it saves me the time of having to correct you.



Right, this coming from the person who called me a cynical and a cretin for writing factual information. Can you say hypocrite?


It's not just one lecturer, one time. I honestly couldn't care less about anything in the world if you don't believe me but this is what happens.

These days you just dont leave a kid alone at home by themselves. Years and years ago it was done by some but times have changed so much.
I dont understand why any parent would leave 3 kids under 3 years old alone in a strange apartment that is not home and go off out for the night. Ok so they checked on them "every half hour". A lot can happen in 30 mins. If there was a fire in the apartment right after that had checked them...all of their 3 kids would be gone.
Its totally and utterly unresponsible and I feel no sympathy for the parents whatsoever. And social services should have stepped in 3 weeks ago and taken the twins to live with people would never leave them alone.
I really really do hope that Maddy is still alive and will be found very soon. And then she can hopefully go and live with people who will take very good care of her.
And her parents should be prosacuted. You can bet if that happened at home and the police or social services were called in for kids being left alone the kids would be taken from the parents straight away. This is no different. Its probably worse seeing it was in a totally different country thats not "home" for the kids.

I could certainly understand leaving a ten year old alone in a house that they are familiar with if, as you said, they knew how to use the phone or go to a neighbour for help if needed. I suppose in one way doing things like that is important because it's obviously vitally important when kids are getting older to start to teach them how to be independent and start fending for themselves there's no way I'd leave a child of 10 alone in an unfamiliar apartment in a foreign country. For me that is just too risky, however I will say that not being being a parent and not knowing what ten year olds are like, I can't say that for definite or judge whether it's responsible or not. Maybe some 10 year olds are responsible and mature enough to be on their own for a few hours when on holidays.

Well - that's the thing. It really depends on the 10 year old. Some are ready for that responsibility and some are not. And that's your job as the parent - to know your kids well enough to know which kid can handle things and which one can't. From the reading I've done over many years - 10 is about the time that SOME kids can start to take that responsibility. Certainly not before that.

Another point you make is good though. It helps to start to teach them to be independent quite young. At 15 my daughter was commuting into New York to work in the summer - by herself. But by that time she had done that so many times with us - and then with her high school friends - it was no big deal. I know parents that don't let their 18 year old kids go into New York City - that big dirty nasty horrible city So obviously there is a line between being too permissive and too restricting. Parents have to dance around that line all the time - it comes with the job description.

And no - I would never leave my 10 year old alone in a hotel room in a foreign country. Many hotels have some sort of babysitting service. If there is none - you just figure you are on a "family" vacation and you don't get "time to yourselves" with a 4 year old with you. That's just having a family - your time alone is limited for awhile. However I am proof that kids DO grow up and you get your privacy back - fortunately

Kathleen

this hotel did have a baby sitting service so why they didn't bother to use that defies me personally.

Hmmmm yeh theres no question it was a stupid thing to do but in a Family resort like that you just wouldnt expect it to happen. I can see why they let down their guard, its prob something thousands of parents do but get away with. They will have to live with it for the rest of their lives, even if she is found safe and unharmed, she prob will never forgive them either.

Speaking as a parent i know that we would never have done what they did.We have been away to Greece many a time and not once have we left the kids on their own. When we have dinner we have it all together . The father said it was like being in the garden .Its not they are in a strange place they dont know what or who is about .Even when we go to places like Milton Keynes shopping center , if my son goes to the loo i am watching the entrance like a hawk just incase , you just cant take any risks these days. We find it very strange that they should only take one child aswell .How come the other kids didnt make a fuss? Feel very sorry for Madeleine but i do think the parents are to blame .

i know russ i just don't get the mentality that would lead you to do that.

i dont have kids but **** me if i'm going to leave them in a room so i can go for a meal. my mum wouldn't even go for a bath and leave us next door alone until we were old enough to sit and watch postman pat or something without us moving...

leaving say a 10-16 year old depending on their maturity levels etc... for half an hour for some peace is one thing but leaving 2 babies and a toddler in a room? that's unforgivable and i hope it leads to alot less people doing it.

as for why she was taken and not the other two... one can only assume they've been watched and she was the one they wanted to take which makes it even worse than an opportunist grab.

...I've stayed at a couple of resorts run by the same company. Both resorts had security at the entrances and were spread over a few private acres...with an assortment of accomodation from villas to hotel rooms. Most of the staff are english and they have always promoted themselves as being one of the best family holidays going..winning awards for their child care year on year. Their child nanny ratio is 2:1.

Both resorts I stayed at had a "kind of baby listening" service which involved nannies sitting with their favourite book at the end of corridors or outside a group of villas and every 10 minutes or so listening at the doors for noise. If there was any noise/crying they would go to the resturant(s) Parents will have informed the nannies of which one of the all inclusive resturants within the complex they would have been in. The nannies would then walk around with a chalk board saying.."noise/crying in room 101" etc.

This is far from ideal but as the resort is in it's own private grounds and protected by security maybe the parents thought they would only have to worry if the children awoke and that the nannies would alert them very quickly if that was the case.

I really don't get the lets-hang-the-parents-attitude. Sure, the parents made a wrong judgment call and a huge one too. But if they didn't think it was safe, I'm sure they wouldn't have done it this way. They had a direct view onto the room and they went up every 30 mins to see if all was ok. It probably felt safe enough for them and I guess it never occurred to them that something this awful could happen. Yes, they (obviously) made a huge mistake, but they now have gotta pay the biggest price there is for that mistake. Saying they need to be prosecuted for that, is just ridiculous.