[RS8MB0R8]

Originally Posted by ponrauil

On the other hand though, don't you think pretty much any player would have done the same?

An Irish defender (Ledger I think) actually said Ireland would have done the same if they'd had the opportunity and that the one to blame is the ref, not Henry.


Ponrauil

Maybe it's just naivety on my part but I'd like to think that deliberately cheating shouldn't be on any players' minds regardless of the stage they're playing on.

As you said before, France may well have had the upper hand in a penalty shoot-out but Henry made the decision to act unprofessionally. It was a despicably selfish act with consequences that stretch further than the simple outcome of France qualifying for the World Cup Finals at the expense of Ireland.

He thinks he's vindicated himself by admitting it after the game and trying to say it's the ref's fault as he should have spotted it. What was he going to say after the game? "I didn't touch it, I don't know what you're all going on about?" Come on.

What that can be interpreted as is, "It's OK to cheat so long as you don't get caught and, if you don't get caught, you can't be held responsible." That's absurd.

Players receive bans for diving and attempting to deceive the officials so this case should be no different. It was deception whichever way you look at it and not just for gaining undeserved points in some mid-season league match but in costing a nation qualification for world football's greatest prize. The celebration was just rubbing salt in the wound and a lesser issue to the initial deliberate handball(s) in my eyes.

I can't see the game being replayed, despite the fact that by rights it should be, so that's that and we just have to accept it. What message does it send out when the rewards for cheating at the highest level of the game far outweigh any consequences that may come of it though. They'll never eradicate it from football because they simply don't have the balls to enforce severe punishment on those who try to pass it off as some sort of acceptable gamesmanship.

[ticos_stick]

I agree with all of the above. Ireland have been treated outrageously.

1. FIFA decide at the last minute to seed the play offs so the "Big" nations qualify resulting in FIFA making lots more money through TV, advertising etc.

2. The referee and linesman conveniently miss Henry's two blatant handballs.

It's a sad day for football.

[ponrauil]

Originally Posted by RS8MB0R8

Maybe it's just naivety on my part but I'd like to think that deliberately cheating shouldn't be on any players' minds regardless of the stage they're playing on.

As you said before, France may well have had the upper hand in a penalty shoot-out but Henry made the decision to act unprofessionally. It was a despicably selfish act with consequences that stretch further than the simple outcome of France qualifying for the World Cup Finals at the expense of Ireland.

He thinks he's vindicated himself by admitting it after the game and trying to say it's the ref's fault as he should have spotted it. What was he going to say after the game? "I didn't touch it, I don't know what you're all going on about?" Come on.

What that can be interpreted as is, "It's OK to cheat so long as you don't get caught and, if you don't get caught, you can't be held responsible." That's absurd.

Players receive bans for diving and attempting to deceive the officials so this case should be no different. It was deception whichever way you look at it and not just for gaining undeserved points in some mid-season league match but in costing a nation qualification for world football's greatest prize. The celebration was just rubbing salt in the wound and a lesser issue to the initial deliberate handball(s) in my eyes.

I can't see the game being replayed, despite the fact that by rights it should be, so that's that and we just have to accept it. What message does it send out when the rewards for cheating at the highest level of the game far outweigh any consequences that may come of it though. They'll never eradicate it from football because they simply don't have the balls to enforce severe punishment on those who try to pass it off as some sort of acceptable gamesmanship.

I agree man, and I wish he'd have gone to the ref and admitted his foul. All I'm saying is that sadly it's the state of the game and its economical weight that make these things possible. Still I'm pretty sure any player at this level would have done the same.

Think about it, if instead of a handball he had pushed a defender to the ground, which is a foul just the same as a handball, I'm not so sure he'd be called a cheater as he is today, when the problem would be exactly the same.

As for the ref, sure we can believe that he had some pressure knowing that for sponsors and advertisers having France instead or Ireland in the last 32 is better, but we can also consider that he's human and that in the 5 minutes before the goal he refused a penalty for France (he was right but other refs could have called it without being so scandalous), and refused a goal too... it's more than possible that he had doubt in his mind. So I'd say it's a bit unfair to say he was bought in some way.

And about France winning on penalties, I was joking. We were in a dreadful mental state and would have lost... Basically Ireland wanted to qualify while France was afraid not to. We did have a very solid keeper (only positive thing about these two games for France), but we would have missed a couple of pens I'm sure, and Given is a good keeper too.

It's scandalous that a team built around players that play the Champions League every year failed so miserably to get itself together and produced so much technical and tactical waste.

Well... one thing's for sure for next June: at least three boring games.


Ponrauil

[RS8MB0R8]

Originally Posted by ponrauil

I agree man, and I wish he'd have gone to the ref and admitted his foul. All I'm saying is that sadly it's the state of the game and its economical weight that make these things possible. Still I'm pretty sure any player at this level would have done the same.

Think about it, if instead of a handball he had pushed a defender to the ground, which is a foul just the same as a handball, I'm not so sure he'd be called a cheater as he is today, when the problem would be exactly the same.

As for the ref, sure we can believe that he had some pressure knowing that for sponsors and advertisers having France instead or Ireland in the last 32 is better, but we can also consider that he's human and that in the 5 minutes before the goal he refused a penalty for France (he was right but other refs could have called it without being so scandalous), and refused a goal too... it's more than possible that he had doubt in his mind. So I'd say it's a bit unfair to say he was bought in some way.

And about France winning on penalties, I was joking. We were in a dreadful mental state and would have lost... Basically Ireland wanted to qualify while France was afraid not to. We did have a very solid keeper (only positive thing about these two games for France), but we would have missed a couple of pens I'm sure, and Given is a good keeper too.

It's scandalous that a team built around players that play the Champions League every year failed so miserably to get itself together and produced so much technical and tactical waste.

Well... one thing's for sure for next June: at least three boring games.


Ponrauil

Your description of France sounds like the England team before Capello took over - unfulfilled potential and I know exactly how frustrating it is.

I don't think that the ref was bought either. To be honest, he could have given the pen as you said and that would have had the same result without nearly as much uproar afterwards so I think we can safely throw that conspiracy theory out the window. The seeding of the play-offs was underhanded and unfair though and for that, FIFA should be ashamed.

Realistically speaking as well, what would the French nation's response have been towards Henry if he had have admitted it to the ref, the goal had been disallowed and France had gone out? There would have been similar uproar that he should have just kept his mouth shut. The simple answer is he just shouldn't have done it in the first place but as soon as he decided he was going to use dishonesty to gain the advantage, he was a condemned man even if he'd then decided to come clean about it in order to put it right immediately afterwards - at least he would have kept his dignity though.

It is a pretty bitter pill for the Irish and must feel like a hollow victory for true French football fans who share the opinion that cheating needs to be seriously dealt with in football.

Penalty shoot-outs are a lottery as well. It's almost a case of flipping a coin to decide who wins so France may well have come through it - we'll never know. I hate shoot-outs when England are in them (cos we lose more than we win) but they're good fun to watch otherwise!

[Irishshin]

I don't think we will get a reply either. But the irish football association has called for it.

There has been nothing but this all over the news today.
From the serious to the funny (I gave my french crossiant back or I was so mad I threw my gillette razor into the bin ).

Ireland were robbed. And it was the closest they got in ages.

[ponrauil]

Originally Posted by RS8MB0R8

Your description of France sounds like the England team before Capello took over - unfulfilled potential and I know exactly how frustrating it is.

It is very similar yeah. That coach has been there since 2004 and he still has to come up with a regular starting 11 and a solid central defence 6 months before his 3 major competition. The WC 2006 final he had nothing to do with (players like Zidane and Thuram called the shots), but he's responsible for the desastrous 2008 Euro followed by shameful qualifiers... struggling to finishing 2nd of our group with Serbia as the other "big" team... losing to them and Austria etc...
So another frustrating thing for Irish and French fans is that we're qualified in the worst way possible with no chance at all of doing better than Ireland would have.

Originally Posted by RS8MB0R8

The seeding of the play-offs was underhanded and unfair though and for that, FIFA should be ashamed.

Yeah that's so unfair. You don't change the rules during the game.

Originally Posted by RS8MB0R8

The simple answer is he just shouldn't have done it in the first place but as soon as he decided he was going to use dishonesty to gain the advantage, he was a condemned man even if he'd then decided to come clean about it in order to put it right immediately afterwards - at least he would have kept his dignity though.

Having played the game for a while and seen loads of games I believe many players could have had such a move. Things are going so fast at such a level that you can have stupid reflexes sometimes. I remember Richard Gough of Scotland just catching the ball in the middle of the pitch for no reason and being sent off for it... a stupid reflex move.
I don't think Henry actually had the time to think and consider the chances before he touched the ball with his hand, etc... He commited a foul and wasn't caught, happens many times in every game, only this is as unfair as it gets for the other team.

What Henry did after the goal, celebrate like he did, that was shameful... but at least he apologised after the whistle to Irish players, I know it's no relief but I believe other players would not have cared to do that at all (the likes of Christiano Ronaldo or Inzaghi for example).

I'm not saying Irish fans shouldn't be upset, just that it's an every game incident only with the heaviest consequences possible. It's not Henry's fault - again I'm convinced most if not all players would/could have done the same and get away with it - as much as football authorities for doing nothing to reduce refereeing mistakes when the technology has been there for years already. There's video of course, but also just putting a ref behind each goal would have prevented that incident.

Originally Posted by RS8MB0R8

It is a pretty bitter pill for the Irish and must feel like a hollow victory for true French football fans who share the opinion that cheating needs to be seriously dealt with in football.

What French fans are angry - and shameful - about is that it took such a foul play to qualify, that with a team like ours and with such a perspective as a WC we delivered such a poor and fearful performance. Yet the coach and players don't seem to realise their appalling weakness as a team, even if the Irish did deliver a very solid and intelligent performance. And even when they weren't that good in the first game it took us a lucky goal to come home with the lead.

We do not deserve to go through even if it had ended 0-0 or if we had won on penalties.
Of course we're well aware of what Irish fans must feel, we've been there before (WC 1982 semi-final vs Germany).


Ponrauil

[Rob]

There's no way FIFA will allow them to reply the game. If they did football would become even more farcical than it already is. Suddenly everyone who felt they'd been cheated in a game of football would be appealing for replays. Then all the football associations would be overwhelmed with requests. If those requests were turned down, then the clubs with plenty of cash to burn would be getting solicitors involved and going through the courts, etc and it all stems from there.

[Paul85]

Its an absolute disgrace.
Fifa or a joke whats there job exactly ?drinking tea and eating cakes?
This is there chance now to do something.

A replay is fair justice, I cant believe france aint come out and been honest acepting any replay and saying it was wrong, says what the french or about doesnt it.
If they dont have replay then they have to ban henry from playing in world cup..surely
Henry basicaly as admitted cheating, so if this beautiful game as become this way that cheating is allowed, its no longer a sport is it.

I wonder how would it be if it was ireland that did that ..
What nationality is platini?
The playoffs was already fixed for him.

[Mongoose]

Originally Posted by ponrauil

On the other hand though, don't you think pretty much any player would have done the same?

An Irish defender (Ledger I think) actually said Ireland would have done the same if they'd had the opportunity and that the one to blame is the ref, not Henry.


Ponrauil

Exactly.

If Rooney had done it for England it would be "clever play" and the "refs fault"

[mo_rizwan]

Statement from Thierry Henry:

"I have said at the time and I will say again that yes I handled the ball.

"I am not a cheat and never have been. It was an instinctive reaction to a ball that was coming extremely fast in a crowded penalty area.

"As a footballer you do not have the luxury of the television to slow the pace of the ball down 100 times to be able to make a conscious decision.

"People are viewing a slow motion version of what happened and not what I or any other footballer faces in the game.

"If people look at it in full speed you will see that it was an instinctive reaction. It is impossible to be anything other than that.

"I have never denied that the ball was controlled with my hand. I told the Irish players, the referee and the media this after the game.

"Naturally I feel embarrassed at the way that we won and feel extremely sorry for the Irish who definitely deserve to be in South Africa.

"Of course the fairest solution would be to replay the game, but it is not in my control.

"There is little more I can do apart from admit that the ball had contact with my hand leading up to our equalising goal and I feel very sorry for the Irish."