Q + A with Stay Human - V.2 : The Case for Christ.

*ºÇåptäîn¤Çrä§hº* · #31 03-01-2004, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Becky

Why does that warrant an eye-roll? If I only believed in things I LIKE, then I would probably be in a mental institution since I wouldn't be able to cope with reality.

For me, the LIKING here refers not to things I love or admire, but to things I can take for granted. Since there are a lot of things I CAN'T take for granted, I can't believe the rest. I would feel mentally sick if I would have to believe in things I actually can't believe in.

My world view has no holes, at least none I'm aware of right now, so yes, I only believe in things I LIKE in the way that they fit in my world view, be it good or bad REAL things. I mean there are things that are not good or nice, but they still fit in my world view. So I do cope with reality.

Dawn · #32 03-01-2004, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawn

As for the fairytale book, I presume you mean the bible, the bible is based on fact and history, its a history book written by many witnesses.

Most of the bible is based on nothing but fairytales. There are some historic characters in it, but most of it is just made up.

Quote:

A lot of what is written ie history of the people, kings, prophets has now been proven by archelogical digs etc.

Yes, but none off the stuff that "matters" has been proven. The kings, prophets and such existed, but did Jesus? Did he perform miracles?

Quote:

Would you therefore think that any history book about the past kings and Queens of this world would be seen as a fairytale ?

Every history book is a fairy tale to some degree. The bible is very much just a story. The Quran has the same story, but with different people. I'm sure you think that that's as authentic as the bible then?

According to most historians, bible was written hundreds of years AFTER the alledged Jesus was crusified. I'm sure the stories have changed through the years.

Ice

Ice Ice Baby, sorry its a thing from the 80s

How can you prove that the bible was a fairytale, surely it is easier to prove that it exists with the amount of witnesses telling the history of Jesus miracles.

The point you make about the Koran is interesting , it is in fact the closest thing to the christian bible. Muhammad (prophet from Koran) is Muslims version of Jesus. Muhummad did exist he was mentioned in the Christian bible. What is mainly different is that Muslims live by the old testaments commandments.

Dawn

Dawn · #33 03-01-2004, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Bon Jovi

A little point here and I'm not shooting anyone down in anyway whatsoever.

BUT As far as Christianti is concerned int he grand scheme of things, it's a fairly new religion.

Now if God didn't want us praying to false God's etc... which would also include other religions.

then why would all these other religions which pretty much preach the same idea have been around long before it?

If there was 1 true religion do you not think the all knowing, seeing, being God would have made a point of letting everyone know in the 1st place and if God actually did do this it would mean every religion after the initial one is one of these false ones you;re talking about.

Have you read the old testament, it might help you to understand the story of God from the beginning and why people built false Gods. God did make it very clear from early on that He was their God.

Dawn

Dawn · #34 03-01-2004, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *ºÇåptäîn¤Çrä§hº*

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawn

I dont go to church and have lots of reasons why. My relationship with God is more important than my relationship with an institution.

That's very ok to me if you do so. I don't want to change your thoughts. Just stating my opinion as you do yours, and it's been a nice and inspiring thread and I appreciate your thoughts.
What you've written is what I could go with IF church wouldn't be that connected to it, claiming they are the servants of the Lord. Believing in God but not in church would be a halfway thing to me, so I decided to dump it all. Maybe I believe in a force out there, but I don't like it to be called God since this remembers me of the cruel institution.

Quote:

As for the fairytale book, I presume you mean the bible, the bible is based on fact and history, its a history book written by many witnesses. As with most history books, they are written by the witnesses to the history as it has unfolded. A lot of what is written ie history of the people, kings, prophets has now been proven by archelogical digs etc.

Would you therefore think that any history book about the past kings and Queens of this world would be seen as a fairytale ?

As Ice put it, in a way, yes! History is always written by the ones that prevailed over their enemy/opponent.
Yet, you got a point there, but I still don't see the Bible as a history book in the way you put it, since no other history book claims to be the ultimate thin to follow through belief.

Why should you let a bad experience of the church stop a relationship between you and God. Dont you think that you end up worse off ? After my experiences with a bad church it took me 10 yrs to come back and rebuild my relationship with God.

Dawn

Tashjbj · #35 03-01-2004, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawn

As for the fairytale book, I presume you mean the bible, the bible is based on fact and history, its a history book written by many witnesses.

Most of the bible is based on nothing but fairytales. There are some historic characters in it, but most of it is just made up.

Quote:

A lot of what is written ie history of the people, kings, prophets has now been proven by archelogical digs etc.

Yes, but none off the stuff that "matters" has been proven. The kings, prophets and such existed, but did Jesus? Did he perform miracles?

Quote:

Would you therefore think that any history book about the past kings and Queens of this world would be seen as a fairytale ?

Every history book is a fairy tale to some degree. The bible is very much just a story. The Quran has the same story, but with different people. I'm sure you think that that's as authentic as the bible then?

According to most historians, bible was written hundreds of years AFTER the alledged Jesus was crusified. I'm sure the stories have changed through the years.

Ice

Ice Ice Baby, sorry its a thing from the 80s

How can you prove that the bible was a fairytale, surely it is easier to prove that it exists with the amount of witnesses telling the history of Jesus miracles.

The point you make about the Koran is interesting , it is in fact the closest thing to the christian bible. Muhammad (prophet from Koran) is Muslims version of Jesus. Muhummad did exist he was mentioned in the Christian bible. What is mainly different is that Muslims live by the old testaments commandments.

Dawn

Whatever way you look at it the bible is still a story. It was written by man and can therefore not be seen as the word of God. I see the Bible more as guidelines rather than how it was, especially the Old Testament. It's also interesting to think that Jesus is only seen as the Messiah by the Christian world and not in Judaism, considering the fact that Jesus was a Jew.

Tash

#36 03-01-2004, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman

Every history book is a fairy tale to some degree. The bible is very much just a story. The Quran has the same story, but with different people. I'm sure you think that that's as authentic as the bible then?

According to most historians, bible was written hundreds of years AFTER the alledged Jesus was crusified. I'm sure the stories have changed through the years.

Ice

you're missing the point. the point is not that the bible is 100% accurate fact and nothing is incorrect. thoroughout the hundreds of years their have been misinterpretations and things have been copied down wrong and various other things. you can read the first chapter of Daniel and the dates for the King is wrong. anyone who believes that the bible is without any errors whatsoever is a little bit naive.
yes, parts of the bible is a bit of a fairy tale. the song of solomon was a play performed during jewish festivals. the bible was also a political document. kings and chronicles is where the jews tried to rewrite their history because they didn't like the way it really happened. their beloved king david was a royal screwup, and adulterer, and a murderer(he had his own son murdered!)
the point is that even though humans have screwed it up, God's message STILL comes through.

as for the dates, Luke & Acts (actually 1 letter, split in two by an editor, also it was a letter written to a very high-up Roman official) was written in the late 90s AD. and Luke and Matthew both draw from the same document, which was around before either was published.

as for the other arguments against the existence of God in this thread, they are all rather lame. you people should try reading Pascal and Van Iwagen before spouting your lame arguments against God. at least their arguments held merit.

as for you doubters, please explain this to me. there is a story in Acts where a jewish council is trying to decide what to do about the christians. and they said (paraphrasing) that many religions have come and gone, and this one(christianity) will to, unless it is of God, and then nobody can stop it. 1950 years later its the biggest religion in the world. how do you explain that?

Tashjbj · #37 03-01-2004, 10:38 PM

There are more Muslims in the world than Christians. Christianity hasn't been the biggest religion for about 15 years.

Tash

Iceman · #38 03-01-2004, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawn

Ice Ice Baby, sorry its a thing from the 80s

Actually the 90's.

Quote:

How can you prove that the bible was a fairytale, surely it is easier to prove that it exists with the amount of witnesses telling the history of Jesus miracles.

How can you prove it is true? All that has been proven are the kings and prophets and that there were people living in those towns. There are some signs that a person named Jesus might have lived there, but there are no proof that he was a religous leader of any kind, or that he performed any kind of miracles.

Quote:

The point you make about the Koran is interesting , it is in fact the closest thing to the christian bible. Muhammad (prophet from Koran) is Muslims version of Jesus. Muhummad did exist he was mentioned in the Christian bible. What is mainly different is that Muslims live by the old testaments commandments.

So who's right? What makes you think the christian bible is any more accurate than the Koran of the muslims? It's the same story, different names. It's all a story, much like historic movies today. It's an intrepertation of things that might have happened 2000 years ago. They've been going mouth to mouth for hunderds of years before it was written down. Ever heard of the game where one whispers something in someone elses ear, then he whispers it forward? Multiply that with a million and think about what the result will sound like.

Ice

*ºÇåptäîn¤Çrä§hº* · #39 03-01-2004, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawn

How can you prove that the bible was a fairytale, surely it is easier to prove that it exists with the amount of witnesses telling the history of Jesus miracles.

Just quick cause its off topic: it'd be actually not easier to prove, because you would have to prove that EVERYthing is true, while Ice just has to find one thing false.

*ºÇåptäîn¤Çrä§hº* · #40 03-01-2004, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawn

God did make it very clear from early on that He was their God.

...says the Christian, but why do other religions claim the same and would call YOU a pagan?

Q + A with Stay Human - V.2 : The Case for Christ.

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