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  #11  
Old 12-30-2006, 09:19 PM
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Generally as a rule I'm not in favour of the death penalty but this son-of-a-bitch got exactly what he deserved. For once he got to feel the terror of knowing you're about to die like so many innocent people felt as a result of him.

I am certainly no fan of Bush and I certainly think he and Blair should be obliged to resign as a result of what has taken place in Iraq but to say Bush is no different to Saddam is ridiculous. Bush may be directly and/or indirectly responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of people but you have to take into account intentionality when viewing his crimes, if you want to call them that. The difference between Saddam and Bush is that Saddam knowingly, willfully and intentionally targeted and murdered hundreds of thousands of innocents. His goal was always to maximise casulties. Bush (America and the UK) on the other hand always attempt to cause as little collateral damage as possible. Given a hypothetical scenario where a magic bomb existed that only disabled or killed responsible enemy combatants without any collateral damage to innocent persons, or property, there can be no doubt that they would gladly use these bombs. The same most certainly can not be said for Saddam (or Bin Laden or the likes). I'm not trying to defend Bush for what he is responsible for, he should be held accountable for what has happened in Iraq but it's just ridiculous to equate him with the likes of Saddam.
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  #12  
Old 12-30-2006, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Butters View Post
Generally as a rule I'm not in favour of the death penalty but this son-of-a-bitch got exactly what he deserved. For once he got to feel the terror of knowing you're about to die like so many innocent people felt as a result of him.

I am certainly no fan of Bush and I certainly think he and Blair should be obliged to resign as a result of what has taken place in Iraq but to say Bush is no different to Saddam is ridiculous. Bush may be directly and/or indirectly responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of people but you have to take into account intentionality when viewing his crimes, if you want to call them that. The difference between Saddam and Bush is that Saddam knowingly, willfully and intentionally targeted and murdered hundreds of thousands of innocents. His goal was always to maximise casulties. Bush (America and the UK) on the other hand always attempt to cause as little collateral damage as possible. Given a hypothetical scenario where a magic bomb existed that only disabled or killed responsible enemy combatants without any collateral damage to innocent persons, or property, there can be no doubt that they would gladly use these bombs. The same most certainly can not be said for Saddam (or Bin Laden or the likes). I'm not trying to defend Bush for what he is responsible for, he should be held accountable for what has happened in Iraq but it's just ridiculous to equate him with the likes of Saddam.
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  #13  
Old 12-30-2006, 09:39 PM
Cuchulainn Cuchulainn is offline
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Originally Posted by Butters View Post
Generally as a rule I'm not in favour of the death penalty but this son-of-a-bitch got exactly what he deserved. For once he got to feel the terror of knowing you're about to die like so many innocent people felt as a result of him.

I am certainly no fan of Bush and I certainly think he and Blair should be obliged to resign as a result of what has taken place in Iraq but to say Bush is no different to Saddam is ridiculous. Bush may be directly and/or indirectly responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of people but you have to take into account intentionality when viewing his crimes, if you want to call them that. The difference between Saddam and Bush is that Saddam knowingly, willfully and intentionally targeted and murdered hundreds of thousands of innocents. His goal was always to maximise casulties. Bush (America and the UK) on the other hand always attempt to cause as little collateral damage as possible. Given a hypothetical scenario where a magic bomb existed that only disabled or killed responsible enemy combatants without any collateral damage to innocent persons, or property, there can be no doubt that they would gladly use these bombs. The same most certainly can not be said for Saddam (or Bin Laden or the likes). I'm not trying to defend Bush for what he is responsible for, he should be held accountable for what has happened in Iraq but it's just ridiculous to equate him with the likes of Saddam.

Dont get me wrong i would in no way say that Bush and Blair are in the same league as as Saddam! tho is Saddam more intelligetn than Bush?? that would be a good argument! id say yes lol!

i know Saddam killed millions willingly and what not but my point was that not only should Bush have resigned over the whole Iraq issue (Blair im not so sure! for other reasons) but i do think that he should be punished over the plain fact that they LIED about the reasons for going into Iraq. one could go as far as saying the American government fabrcated a stroy so they could go into iraq. I know there is many investigations and inquirys going on about the Iraq war but the fact is Bush is the Commander and Chief and he know ful well what actions the american army were taken in the war and the problems that were going on in the prisions.

so my view is (and i want opinons on this!) that Bush went into iraq with full knoweldge that his reasons were unjust and he knew he would kill people in order to get Saddam. so he is responsable for deaths and he should be punished by internation law
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  #14  
Old 12-30-2006, 10:22 PM
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so my view is (and i want opinons on this!) that Bush went into iraq with full knoweldge that his reasons were unjust and he knew he would kill people in order to get Saddam. so he is responsable for deaths and he should be punished by internation law
I would kind of agree with that. The problem is you would have to prove incontrivertably that Bush knowingly lied about the reasons for the invasion. Did he knowingly lie or did he act off incorrect and incomplete evidence? I personally don't know.

If he lied then he should be charged with crimes against humanity.

I personally think he wanted to go into Iraq all along and 9/11 gave him the opportunity to do so. They had incomplete, and what turned out to be disastrously wrong intelligence regarding Saddam's chemical and biological arsenals and with that shoody evidence Bush launched a monumentally catastophic war. He acted completely wrecklessly as there was no need at all to act so quickly. There was no possibilty that he was an immediate threat to any other country, they had a job to do in Afghanistan, and the UN were doing their job. That tells me that Bush (surprise, surprise) had no intrest at all in what was true, rather he had his opportunity to go after Saddam and he took it. And we all what has resulted.

So even if it can be said that he never lied, his actions were wreckless, uninformed and disingenuous. If a leader in any business acted as such they would've been forced to step down long ago. Bush should, at the very least, have been forced to resign long ago. But then again we are talking about a country where his people voted him in a second time, actually I suppose truthfully that was his forst time to be voted in. Never has Kent Brockman's famous line "I said it before and I'll say it again, democracy simply doesn't work" seemed more applicable.
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  #15  
Old 12-30-2006, 10:37 PM
Cuchulainn Cuchulainn is offline
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I would kind of agree with that. The problem is you would have to prove incontrivertably that Bush knowingly lied about the reasons for the invasion. Did he knowingly lie or did he act off incorrect and incomplete evidence? I personally don't know. .
we agree with something! isnt that prove of God?? lol only messing!

see your talking with Afganistan and all the infinished things they had there and still have there and i think that whole war is central to whole thing and iv a few points that should be investigated

afgan was the first war that there was a just reason for under Bush. but in a book published during the Iraq war a leading Government offical said that Donal Rumsfelld (dnt know the exact spelling) said to Bush to go after Iraq instead as it had better tragets. if this is true we have the beginning of the problem.

as we all know but now there were no WMDs in Iraq, and Saddam had already turned help from Bin Laden to take on america as well as refusing to give them aid and shelter! so Iraq posed no danger to the international community! making the excuse that Saddam was a threat more r less nul and void.

The trail of Saddam was a joke plain and simple! and a statement made yesterday i think made a good point that Saddam was not a prisoner of Iraq but of America and Iraq is also a accupied country so the Trail should have been conducted by America and Britian no by the Iraqs themselves. The verdict would have been the same but im not sure about the sentence!

as for Bush i believe that he should be put on trail but i dout that wil happen since America is seen as a force for good! YEA RIGHT! and hed probs get up of it by something will unfit to stand trial because of low intelligence!
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  #16  
Old 12-31-2006, 12:25 AM
gazthomas gazthomas is offline
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I think it was Gandalf who said "Some who die deserve life, and many who live deserve death." Or something like that.

Adrian


lmao

lets link lord of the rings with the most evil dictator ever, nice.

i havent read all that crap


was he hung or smething?

all you need to know

EDIT BY KEV. WATCH THE VIDEO WITH CAUTION. CONTAINS GRAPHIC IMAGES
EDIT :

Last edited by gazthomas; 12-31-2006 at 01:15 AM..
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  #17  
Old 12-31-2006, 02:44 AM
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EDIT BY KEV. WATCH THE VIDEO WITH CAUTION. CONTAINS GRAPHIC IMAGES
EDIT : [url]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7532034279766935521

interesting video
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  #18  
Old 12-31-2006, 02:55 AM
Cuchulainn Cuchulainn is offline
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Originally Posted by Yvonne View Post
EDIT BY KEV. WATCH THE VIDEO WITH CAUTION. CONTAINS GRAPHIC IMAGES
EDIT : [url]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7532034279766935521

interesting video
interesting yes lol i didnt watch to the end becausxe i find just a little disturbing seeing a man getting executed!(dnt know if this video shows it granted but im taking it does!)

to be honest since the trail was a farse its really murder!
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  #19  
Old 12-31-2006, 03:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Butters View Post
Generally as a rule I'm not in favour of the death penalty but this son-of-a-bitch got exactly what he deserved. For once he got to feel the terror of knowing you're about to die like so many innocent people felt as a result of him.
I would love to think that you were right, but I am afraid Saddam not even closely got what he deserved, nor do I think he felt the same way as the people he tortured and butchered. Saddam had his day(s) in court, he got to plead, he got to explain, he got to defend himself. The people he killed did not.

I also don't think Saddam actually understood what he was tried for and why he was sentenced to death. Of course he was told and bla bla bla, but I do not think he ever had that moment of regret and complete comprehension. He was a sick sick sick man and he died as such.


As for hanging being barbaric: From what I understand, hanging is a quicker and less painful death than lethal injection.
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  #20  
Old 12-31-2006, 04:09 AM
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I would love to think that you were right, but I am afraid Saddam not even closely got what he deserved, nor do I think he felt the same way as the people he tortured and butchered. Saddam had his day(s) in court, he got to plead, he got to explain, he got to defend himself. The people he killed did not.

I also don't think Saddam actually understood what he was tried for and why he was sentenced to death. Of course he was told and bla bla bla, but I do not think he ever had that moment of regret and complete comprehension. He was a sick sick sick man and he died as such.


As for hanging being barbaric: From what I understand, hanging is a quicker and less painful death than lethal injection.
Yeah, your right of course but eye witnesses reported that Saddam was telling himself not to be afraid as he was going to the gallows. It's safe to say he knew what was happening and he would've been shitting himself.

Hanging apparently is an extremely quick and painless death. The neck breaks from the fall so death is instantaneous. They should've just removed a box from under his feet and let him die slowly. It'd be a damn sight less painful and barbaric then the electric chair that for sure.
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