Secret CIA detention centre

*ºÇåptäîn¤Çrä§hº* · #21 10-14-2004, 03:12 PM

Although i'm not sharing the hatred in his replies

, I am pretty much totally with Stone on this one.

Adrian · #22 10-14-2004, 04:01 PM

I'm a little, erm, ambiguous on this one. I believe the guilty should be punished. I think the innocent should be spared. I think we should punish those we find guilty by trial, where each side has a chance to enter it's case, and I think those trials should be impartial, so as to give the innocent the best chance.

However, when they behead people on national television, I think they should expect some sort of retaliation. I respect their rebellion, I think they've got the right goals. But killing civilians is never the way to go. Attacking soldiers and those who work for them, THAT is warfare. Killing civilians is not. Punish the guilty above ALL else.

Adrian

spunkywho · #23 10-14-2004, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas Anderson

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Originally Posted by spunkywho

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Originally Posted by Jim Bon Jovi

nope. these guys are crazy enough to fly planes into buildings. if they know we're going to be brutal with them then it'll make more guys thinking about getting into it think twice.

that is barbaric and I'd like to think we are above that.

So you'd prefer we gave them a slap on the wrists and made them promise not to do it again?

I said I was FOR punishment, not torture. A slap on the wrists is not punishment in my eyes.

There has got to be a middle ground - you don't really think it is either do nothing or torture the bastards....

spunkywho · #24 10-14-2004, 07:24 PM

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Originally Posted by StoneDeaf

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Originally Posted by Jim Bon Jovi

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Originally Posted by StoneDeaf

With torture and shite, mighty allied forces aren't reasoning like normal people either. Face it, u guys as just as bad as the ones u fight.

Severe punishment will help? I don't think so, it's going to be quite the opposite. In case u haven't noticed, there seems to be an endless line of candidates available among them religious/whatever fanatics. And the more u torture the ones caught, the more candidates there will be. Only way u could win it by force is to bomb whole middle-east to stoneage. But oh no u can't, there's a little bit of that oil u so desperately want

again, what's the point of taking the moral high ground? if they're going to be dirty bastards about it then so can we. We're not exactly at the point of dragging civvie's out of their homes and beheading them on TV.

The point of high moral ground, or more like lack of it, is that once u take yourself to their level, you have no ground accusing them of similar cruelty. This comes down to sending out a message saying that any kind of cruelty is accepted. Ever thought where it leads? Fanatics will be more and more fierce with their cause. One thing I do agree with is that u can't reason with the fanatics. But that still doesn't justify slaughtering them without a trial. A bullet in the head while attempting to capture them would go fine....but unnecessary cruelty is a whole different matter.

Even in warfare there's laws u know. Like said, if ur opponent uses whatever means it doesn't justify civiliced world to use the same means. When u do alike, u are alike. No better, No worse. Just similar.

yes to all of it.

Sambora1 · #25 10-14-2004, 07:28 PM

Hey there, throwing in some pennies. If you are talking about morality, moral philosophy teaches us that the ego is very important, more specific the normative values of the ego. The normative standing point does not dialogue with other normative values or other egos, that is why all the grand moral philosophers will never be unified in a superior moral reasoning. Up to a certain extent normativity is subject to the ego's values. Thus, if a country preaches morality, it should not leave that path, because they would deny their own values. Yes, I do work in university and yes, I do dislike the misuse of concepts. For the record, I do not condone the violence from either side. The bad thing is, from what I get from it, I understand both sides, so I'm left in the middle. Hmmmmmm.......This left feels right!

Greetz,

Rob

UKjovi · #26 10-14-2004, 07:32 PM

Can i ask a hypothetical question? say if your Mother , sister or brother or anyone of your family had suffered at the hands of these bastards, say they had been raped tortured sodismed cut open or what ever by them how would you like them treated then? be told oh you naughy boys dont do it again or would you want them to go through what they did to your loved ones? just think how you would feel and answer truthly not what you expect others to hear what you would realy want to happen to the people that took your loves lives away

spunkywho · #27 10-14-2004, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UKjovi

Can i ask a hypothetical question? say if your Mother , sister or brother or anyone of your family had suffered at the hands of these bastards, say they had been raped tortured sodismed cut open or what ever by them how would you like them treated then? be told oh you naughy boys dont do it again or would you want them to go through what they did to your loved ones? just think how you would feel and answer truthly not what you expect others to hear what you would realy want to happen to the people that took your loves lives away

No. 1 -- nobody proposes a 'oh you naughty boy don't do it again' mentality

No. 2 -- none of these people that conduct the torture had their mothers raped or slit open. That is why we have professional soldiers - people that are trained at what they do and conduct themselves in a rational manner - no matter the pressure. I don't want them to act all emotional, irrational and like I would if something happened to my loved ones --- I want someone who would do better....

Keeper · #28 10-14-2004, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *ºÇåptäîn¤Çrä§hº*

Although i'm not sharing the hatred in his replies

, I am pretty much totally with Stone on this one.

Yeah, me too.

I thought we were past the an-eye-for-an-eye phase.

Keeper · #29 10-14-2004, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrian

However, when they behead people on national television, I think they should expect some sort of retaliation.
Adrian

What was first though - the egg or the chicken?

StoneDeaf · #30 10-14-2004, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UKjovi

Can i ask a hypothetical question? say if your Mother , sister or brother or anyone of your family had suffered at the hands of these bastards, say they had been raped tortured sodismed cut open or what ever by them how would you like them treated then? be told oh you naughy boys dont do it again or would you want them to go through what they did to your loved ones? just think how you would feel and answer truthly not what you expect others to hear what you would realy want to happen to the people that took your loves lives away

Bullet in the head. Electric chair. Lethal injection. Death by hanging. Life in prison would be best choise, since death is sort of too "easy" for such people. But I wouldn't go torturing them.

Secret CIA detention centre

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