Smoking Ban England

or the woolpack

Dawn

Smoking is a disgusting practice and the only crime in banning it in public places is that the decision to do so wasn't taken sooner!

Rubbish! Banning smoking in public places merely means smokers now have to light up outside the pub. If people decide that they'd sooner stay at home and smoke indoors rather than be sensible and considerate enough to move outside a pub for a few minutes at a time, then that's their own stupid fault!

If it means that they sacrifice the health of their own children as a result, they have to live with that - why should they inflict it upon complete strangers who enjoy going out and socialising just as much as they do?

And your comments about the 'weak-minded' and 'cowardly' friends who haven't got the courage to ask their mates not to light up are ridiculous! You assume that every smoker/group of smokers that enter a pub or club do so with a non-smoker. Not likely. In fact, most of the time, offended non-smoking patrons would be forced to approach complete strangers if they wanted them to put their fag out! That's really sensible. I can really see somebody approaching a 7ft skinhead and asking them politely to put their cigarette out!

The notion that smokers, as you claim, have no real desire to inflict their smoke on everybody else is irrelevant also. They may not intend for it to be inflicted upon bystanders but IT IS and regardless of intent, it needs to be dealt with - and it has, finally!

Say rubbish all you like, but this is exactly what has already happened in the States - I'll find the link once I'm done fisking.

If you had paid any attention to my post you would remember I was advocating sealed smoking areas that are entirely voluntary to enter. Even within a smoking establishment, no member of the staff or public need be exposed unless they wish.


I went back to check my original post to be sure I had been clear with my wording and there it is - "I'm sure the vast majority would have beem happy to oblige you and visit your CHOICE OF VENUE for a change, if only you had asked."

I suggested nothing of the sort. I suggested that non-smokers could ask their friends to visit a non-smoking pub for the evening. When I smoked, I would have been happy to pop outside for a few minutes if it would make their lives more pleasant. Even today, every smoker in my family will refrain when my non-smoking brother visits and are glad to do so.

This is indeed a ridiculous idea. It would take one hell of a public speaker to convince an entire pub to stub out.

WHICH IS WHY I NEVER ADVOCATED IT!!!!!

Where the **** do you live? Even last time I saw Madness, the skinheads were only about 5'2" and few and far between.

If a typical night out for you involves 7ft skinheads, i'd think seriously of moving.


You seem to have deliberately and completely ignored the thrust of my argument (though this does assume you aren't so stupid you didn't understand it), which was that we can allow SEGREGATED smoking and keep everyone happy. Hell, it would even save you from the disgust of walking past doorways full of smokers.

It is a rare opportunity to use law for the benefit of people on both sides of the case and it has been squandered.

The name rings a bell, I think! We've only been in Hitchin for a year and tend to go to The Millstream more often than not.

The thing with segregated smoking rooms is that all it does is concentrate the fumes to extreme levels. Staff still have to go through to clear empty glasses and ashtrays as part of their job, not through choice. I remember once when I sat with my mate who was a smoker, in the designated smoking carriage on a train. The fumes made me want to be physically sick after just a few minutes exposure. Whatever way you look at it, it isn't fair to put staff who work 12 hour shifts, 6 days a week, in that sort of environment.

You have to bear in mind that people don't necessarily choose to work in hospitality. For most unskilled workers or for those who live in seaside, tourist resorts, 90% of the work available to them is in hospitality.

Coming from a tacky tourist town myself before moving to Scotland, I can vouch for that. I had to do summer work behind a bar and also in a restaurant and I would stink of cigarette smoke when I got home at the end of the day. It wasn't something I did through choice, simply that, as a non-driver, no other jobs were available to me.

Back on to the idea of segregated smoking rooms though, you then have to think about the number of smokers that will be going backwards and forwards through the partition for their drinks - the door may as well be permanently open and the whole point of a separate smoking room is lost.

It's not just health issues of non-smoking patrons but the mere fact that the smell itself is unbearable and unwanted. Why so much fuss is kicked up because people have to step outside for a short fag break is beyond me.

Where to begin? I would make the relevant quotes but can't be bothered as there are too many points I'd like to address.

Am I wrong to conclude that you, BeExcellent, are a smoker, like myself?

The idea of a smoking room makes my head spin. I like my cigs, but having to sit in a room where I can't see for bloody smoke doesn't appeal. And what happens when the sealed door is opened, ie to let a smoker in or out? Will these sealed doors have 6ft fans on the non-smoking side to blow the escaping smoke back in? No amount of air conditioning will stop the room filling up. And how about the bar staff then? That would be pretty uncomfortable walking in to empty the ashtrays then. What do the pubs do, advertise for smokers to work for them?

"Can you pull a pint?" "Yes". "Know your cocktails?" "Studied Cocktail Mixing to university level". "Do you smoke?" "No". "I'm afraid you're not really who we're looking for..."

As for non-smoking establishments, why shoud non-smokers have to avoid other bars just because people are smoking. I smoke, and enjoy it for various reasons, but I agree it is pretty disgusting. Why the hell shouldn't I be kind enough to step outside so the others don't have to smell and taste the smoke. How about we make it compulsory for the non-smokers to step outside while I light up?

Your point about people telling you what you can and can't do with your body- just because you can doesn't mean it has to be done in public. Perhaps you also have issues with the people telling us we have to be clothed in public, not indulge in sexual or obscene acts in public, not use your body for getting in fights?

As for your 5'2" skinheads. This 5'2" skinhead may be the toughest, meanest looking guy in the world. I stand a tall figure, but wouldn't be too keen on approaching someone to ask them to stub out, no matter their height, looks, whatever. Would you ask Jackie Chan to stub out? He might be small but he would kick your ass.

Again I will state. I AM A SMOKER. Even then, I don't like it when someone else is blowing smoke in my face. Not because I'm going to die of passive smoking, but because it's plain rude. The ban in Scotland has never once caused me any anger or grief. I think it's a great idea. It's a poor show that manners have had to be enforced on people however, but sometimes extreme measures are needed to get through to the ignorant among us. I was sick hearing people complaining about the ban up here at the time. I'm sick hearing the people down south complaining about it now. For crying out loud, get over it. It's here and it's great.

Rant over.

^ Agree. I have nothing against people who smoke. If they choose to do so, it is their right to do so.

I do have something against being forced to inhale second-hand smoke though and that is the issue that the government has sought to address by introducing these measures.

There is no reason why a smoking room would need to be a throughfare.

Even smokers wouldn't want unventilated smoking rooms. It is entirely, 100% possible to extractor fans to minimize the level of smoke to a level that is a) barely noticable (this i know through experience) and b) of absolutely no damage to health whatseover (even ASH agree on this).

This maybe unpleasant to you, but a smell, in itself, is not harmful and is certainly not the domain of the legal system.

Everyone, whoever they are, has to put up with (to them) unpleasant sights, smells and sounds that they have to put up with on a daily basis.

I am all too aware that social factors have a huge influence on this issue, but ultimately, everyone, whoever they are has low-cost or free access to education and skills. Why should i sacrifice my rights for the sake of someone who hasn't learned skills beyond glass-collecting?

Fine - require a double-door "airlock" system. Insist on smoking rooms being on a separate floor to non-smokers and first-class ventilation. It is all achievable! Insist on the most stringent controls for smoking venues as a condition of a smoking license - as I've said a thousand times, the vast majority of smokers are more than happy to modify their behaviour as long as their is someplace, anyplace, where they can relax and be treated with respect.

I'm sure these venues would prove considerably more popular to the general public than those that outlaw smoking. When was the last time you went to a pub and the non-smoking area was more popular?

[/QUOTE]

Believe it or not, not everyone thinks that way. Even before the ban, there were countless establishments you could enjoy the atmosphere you prefered. Why on earth do you need EVERY venue to adopt this policy?

[/Quote]

Why so much fuss is kicked up because people are incapable of visiting a non-smoking venue is beyond me.

Fine. I'll start setting off stink-bombs and carrying shit around. Hey, it's just a smell right?

I shouldn't have to avoid specific places because people there might want to pollute the air, no-one should. If, however, you want to go somewhere that you might want to smoke, you should be the one to specifically seek that out, not vice-versa. I'm not going to change where I go because of a filthy habit that other people have.

And who pays for these 'very expensive' airlock systems?

And what about small pubs and establishments that actually don't have any rooms that could be transformed into a smoking room?

Somebody has to collect the bloody glasses cos they sure as hell aren't gonna walk themselves to the glasswasher - whether the person who collects them has a degree or not is completely irrelevant!