Jovitalk - Bon Jovi Fan Community
Home Register Members FAQ
 

Syria

NBJ - Everything Else


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 08-29-2013, 05:12 PM
samboraisgodUK's Avatar
samboraisgodUK samboraisgodUK is offline
Senior Member
These Days
 
Join Date: 18 May 2007
Location: Sheffield, UK
Age: 29
Gender: male
Posts: 2,418
Default Syria

How about a genuinely serious discussion for once?

I have quite strong views on this (I'm just about to start my third year at uni studying International Relations & Politics) but I'm more interested in seeing what others think rather than just spouting my thoughts from the off.

So, anyone?
__________________
13.06.2006 - KC STADIUM, HULL
22.06.2008 - ETIHAD STADIUM, MANCHESTER
19.06.2010 - 02 ARENA, LONDON
24.06.2011 - LCCC, MANCHESTER
25.06.2011 - HYDE PARK, LONDON
16.10.2012 - RICHIE - SHEPHERD'S BUSH, LONDON
0̶8̶.̶0̶6̶.̶2̶0̶1̶3̶ ̶-̶ ̶E̶T̶I̶H̶A̶D̶ ̶S̶T̶A̶D̶I̶U̶M̶,̶ ̶M̶A̶N̶C̶H̶E̶S̶T̶E̶R̶
05.07.2013 - HYDE PARK, LONDON
Reply With Quote

  #2  
Old 08-29-2013, 05:34 PM
Jim Bon Jovi Jim Bon Jovi is offline
Senior Member
Crush
 
Join Date: 31 Jul 2002
Location: In my secret bunker hiding from the invasion
Age: 37
Gender: male
Posts: 22,444
Send a message via MSN to Jim Bon Jovi
Default

Most of my degree revolves around geo-politics, IR and war and conflict but it doesn't take a huge amount of knowledge to realise that a. the place is a complete mess and b. maybe siding with the extremists isn't a grand idea.

IF (and it's a big if I mean my 1st thought was, why the hell would they do that?) Assad has gassed his own people then he needs to go, quickly and via force.

On the flipside, every single ****ing conflict we end up getting tied in away back to the mid 19th Century inevitably ends in a complete cluster **** both at the time and for generations after it and with an ever increasinbly globalised world, there's an even bigger risk with it these days.

Personally I'd like to see the UN grow a pair of balls and do something about it. They need a serious rejig of how the Security Council operates to stop situations whereby one country - in this case Russia - can put the stop to an action for questionable reasons.

That's not going to happen and unfortunately the UN isn't fit for purpose in situations like this. I'm no war monger but it is far too passive for its own good. Sometimes in order to avoid conflict, you need to engage in conflict. Assad has had nigh on 2 years of edge to either get out or get his shit together with no major intervention from UN forces and nothing has been solved so now the UN has to act.

The fact that they won't in any tangible or useful way leads to the inevitable situation that:

Air strikes will be used to cripple Syria's military and infrastructure but that alone won't cut it so the rebels will be armed from somewhere (hopefully not the West) but I'm not holding my breath for Western governments to suddenly develop some common sense and stop selling weapons to groups who will inevitably turn them on us in coming years.
__________________
the dude abides
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-29-2013, 06:44 PM
PanosBonJovi's Avatar
PanosBonJovi PanosBonJovi is offline
Senior Member
Born to be my Baby
 
Join Date: 22 Oct 2011
Location: Greece
Gender: male
Posts: 594
Default

United States of America as well as Russia should stay away from Syria and let the people figure it out themselves. They aren't saviors and they won't become now.
__________________
"Talk about a dream, try to make it real"
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-29-2013, 07:27 PM
DevilsSon's Avatar
DevilsSon DevilsSon is offline
Senior Member
Blaze of Posting
 
Join Date: 29 Jul 2002
Location: Cluj-Napoca, Transylvania
Gender: male
Posts: 8,996
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PanosBonJovi View Post
United States of America as well as Russia should stay away from Syria and let the people figure it out themselves. They aren't saviors and they won't become now.
After 100,000 people have been killed? Really? Let people 'figure out themselves' whether to live or die just because it so randomly happened that they were born in Syria? I'm all for political freedom, national self determination and so on. But when people slaughter each other for no reason, the UN should be there. And if the UN doesn't have the balls, someone else should.

That's just idealistic thinking though as I know perfectly well that this is not how the world functions. Also, it doesn't mean that killing Assad and bombing down military/ industrial centres is the solution. But even if that's only the first step in a long, cumbersome and costly transition to something resembling normality, then I'm all in favour.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-29-2013, 11:25 PM
PanosBonJovi's Avatar
PanosBonJovi PanosBonJovi is offline
Senior Member
Born to be my Baby
 
Join Date: 22 Oct 2011
Location: Greece
Gender: male
Posts: 594
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilsSon View Post
After 100,000 people have been killed? Really? Let people 'figure out themselves' whether to live or die just because it so randomly happened that they were born in Syria? I'm all for political freedom, national self determination and so on. But when people slaughter each other for no reason, the UN should be there. And if the UN doesn't have the balls, someone else should.

That's just idealistic thinking though as I know perfectly well that this is not how the world functions. Also, it doesn't mean that killing Assad and bombing down military/ industrial centres is the solution. But even if that's only the first step in a long, cumbersome and costly transition to something resembling normality, then I'm all in favour.
Who started this mess at first place? Not just in Syria but in whole Africa/Asia. This started since 2006 when someone decided to declare Iraq's goverment dictator. Iraq was fine back then, people were living decent, they had nothing against their leader. But someone wanted the oils and their leader wasn't willing to step back & give their sources to them. Then they took him out. Then Libya etc came. It's all about the oil & the money.

Always been like that. Syria would be peaceful but they started it, now they want to become saviors. They aren't. For sure someone has to stop this mess but make it by the democratic way...
__________________
"Talk about a dream, try to make it real"
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-29-2013, 11:58 PM
crashed's Avatar
crashed crashed is offline
Senior Member
Destination any Forum
 
Join Date: 25 Jun 2007
Location: SCOTLAND
Age: 44
Gender: male
Posts: 3,899
Send a message via MSN to crashed
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PanosBonJovi View Post
Iraq was fine back then, people were living decent, they had nothing against their leader.
That really just shows you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

Whilst I completely believe the whole WMD thing was exactly a way for Bush/Blair to try and take down someone to blame for 911 since they couldn't catch Bin Laden and justify their war on terror, and Saddam was totally a scapegoat for that, Iraq was not fine. The people were not living decent. They had no way to act against their leader without being detained by secret police and tortured. Like most dictatorships the people of Iraq had very little freedom, just like the people of Syria.

The people of Syria finally tried to do something about it and instead they've pretty much been lambs to the slaughter for 2 years. However, like all wars that go on too long, both sides then start getting their hands dirty and things get messier and messier.

Does the rest of the world have a moral obligation to step in? If it was happening in my town, on my streets, I'd hope someone would.
__________________
"the life of the party....tears of a clown....can't hear a heartbreak....the music's too loud."
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-30-2013, 01:54 AM
ticos_stick's Avatar
ticos_stick ticos_stick is offline
Senior Member
Just posting
 
Join Date: 18 Sep 2002
Location: Inside Tico's Bass Drum
Age: 36
Gender: male
Posts: 5,002
Send a message via MSN to ticos_stick
Default

Syria is f*cking mental. Some of the amateur footage from there is mind blowing and almost nearly always very graphic - http://www.liveleak.com/c/syria

If The UK, US etc move in then they should be prepared for a long dirty war with lots of death but it hasn't stopped them before.
__________________

Last edited by ticos_stick; 08-30-2013 at 01:57 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-30-2013, 01:55 AM
samboraisgodUK's Avatar
samboraisgodUK samboraisgodUK is offline
Senior Member
These Days
 
Join Date: 18 May 2007
Location: Sheffield, UK
Age: 29
Gender: male
Posts: 2,418
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PanosBonJovi View Post
Who started this mess at first place? Not just in Syria but in whole Africa/Asia. This started since 2006 when someone decided to declare Iraq's goverment dictator. Iraq was fine back then, people were living decent, they had nothing against their leader. But someone wanted the oils and their leader wasn't willing to step back & give their sources to them. Then they took him out. Then Libya etc came. It's all about the oil & the money.
I know I said I'd sit back and just have a read but this is bullshit. The people hated Saddam. Plus, the war in Iraq began in 2003.
__________________
13.06.2006 - KC STADIUM, HULL
22.06.2008 - ETIHAD STADIUM, MANCHESTER
19.06.2010 - 02 ARENA, LONDON
24.06.2011 - LCCC, MANCHESTER
25.06.2011 - HYDE PARK, LONDON
16.10.2012 - RICHIE - SHEPHERD'S BUSH, LONDON
0̶8̶.̶0̶6̶.̶2̶0̶1̶3̶ ̶-̶ ̶E̶T̶I̶H̶A̶D̶ ̶S̶T̶A̶D̶I̶U̶M̶,̶ ̶M̶A̶N̶C̶H̶E̶S̶T̶E̶R̶
05.07.2013 - HYDE PARK, LONDON
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-30-2013, 02:21 AM
crashed's Avatar
crashed crashed is offline
Senior Member
Destination any Forum
 
Join Date: 25 Jun 2007
Location: SCOTLAND
Age: 44
Gender: male
Posts: 3,899
Send a message via MSN to crashed
Default

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23892783

Well that's the UK ruled out of any military action. So we'll just sit back and watch the syrians die? I understand Iraq burned them, but whilst it wasn't a happy society, thousands weren't dying every single day like in Syria which is an entirely different situation. They had no real reason at that point to go after Saddam, I can't help but feel Assad is a ****ing madman.
__________________
"the life of the party....tears of a clown....can't hear a heartbreak....the music's too loud."
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-30-2013, 08:49 AM
PanosBonJovi's Avatar
PanosBonJovi PanosBonJovi is offline
Senior Member
Born to be my Baby
 
Join Date: 22 Oct 2011
Location: Greece
Gender: male
Posts: 594
Default

Like in any dictatorship, someone supports the upcoming dictator to take the leadership of his country. In this case, back in 1967, USA, put George Papadopoulos as the prime minister of Greece in order to avoid Greece becoming a communist country. Although, Papadopoulos was a fine dictator and helped the country's development, when he decided to use the Greek energy sources under Aegian Sea & Ionian Sea, United States took him down by taking down half of Cyprus. The impact in Cyprus was pre-planned and the Cypriots knew about it. As the Greeks knew that a dictator would be in charge for Greece.

The same people that put Papadopoulos in Goverment, the same people took him down.

And about 9/11, I still believe it was an inside job.
__________________
"Talk about a dream, try to make it real"
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11.
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.