NBJ - Everything Else

Jeeper · #1 11-14-2016, 10:43 AM

I'm a big fan of MMA and have followed the UFC from the early days of Tank Abbott to where it is today.

Is anyone else on here a fan?

Saturdays UFC205 card was great and broke all records at MSG. It's a remarkable rise in popularity in just 23yrs.

Now, I'm a big Conor McGregor fan. He's got a ferocious left hand, great speed and timing & has a decent takedown defence. A two weight World champion too. No doubt he is by far the most popular fighter in the UFC.

But I really feel he's pushing the boundaries too much in his public comments about wanting equity within the company. They are making phenomenal money, and Conor is undoubtedly receiving a handsome paycheque too. But to keep questioning and suggesting they (UFC) owe him a debt of gratitude, is taking it a bit too far.

He's a PR dream, and he deserves his spotlight. But as the Diaz fight(s) proved, it's a ruthless sport and a few consecutive defeats could hugely dent his box office appeal.

So while I understand he's trying to get as much as he can, while he can - what sort of business is going to grant him a share of the company he might not even work for 5yrs down the line?

Thoughts on any of the above, the UFC in general or the rivalry between boxing fans & MMA fans!

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Walleris · #2 11-15-2016, 03:27 PM

I'm massive fan of UFC and Conor and off course 205 was phenomenal.

Like Conor himself said, you need to have physical advantages over him (weight, reach, height); if you're his size, you're dead. Especially surprising was his take-down defense - Eddie shot a few times and did not even come close.

I love his antics and his power play and I think he is going to get what he wants and rightfully so. UFC 196 did 1.6 M buys, 202 did 1.65 and 205 should do about 1.8 at least. These are the three biggest PPVs in the company's history and it's all on Conor's back. He is obviously paid nicely for this compared to other fighters, but UFC has a reputation of criminally underpaying their talent. So I'm all for fighters getting what they are worth. The leverage is on his side, because WME is in a lot of debt after spending 4 billion for UFC and so is under a lot of pressure to deliver on great profits; and with Ronda being on her way out, Conor is their only ticket to get there.

Jeeper · #3 11-15-2016, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walleris

I'm massive fan of UFC and Conor and off course 205 was phenomenal.

Like Conor himself said, you need to have physical advantages over him (weight, reach, height); if you're his size, you're dead. Especially surprising was his take-down defense - Eddie shot a few times and did not even come close.

I love his antics and his power play and I think he is going to get what he wants and rightfully so. UFC 196 did 1.6 M buys, 202 did 1.65 and 205 should do about 1.8 at least. These are the three biggest PPVs in the company's history and it's all on Conor's back. He is obviously paid nicely for this compared to other fighters, but UFC has a reputation of criminally underpaying their talent. So I'm all for fighters getting what they are worth. The leverage is on his side, because WME is in a lot of debt after spending 4 billion for UFC and so is under a lot of pressure to deliver on great profits; and with Ronda being on her way out, Conor is their only ticket to get there.

I agree he has massively helped propel the UFC to the next level. And I don't blame him for expecting a bigger reward as a result. I just think he needs to be careful to not out position himself, and force an ultimatum that may not play out the way he hopes.

Jon Jones has done Conor a huge favour too.

I'm not sure about Ronda. Her return fight is make or break. She'd need an impressive winning streak to repair some of the damage to her reputation. Savage KO's are confidence killers.

Who would you like to see Conor fight next?

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Walleris · #4 11-15-2016, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeeper

I agree he has massively helped propel the UFC to the next level. And I don't blame him for expecting a bigger reward as a result. I just think he needs to be careful to not out position himself, and force an ultimatum that may not play out the way he hopes.

Jon Jones has done Conor a huge favour too.

I'm not sure about Ronda. Her return fight is make or break. She'd need an impressive winning streak to repair some of the damage to her reputation. Savage KO's are confidence killers.

Who would you like to see Conor fight next?

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What favor by Jon Jones? His return fight vs. OSP only made 425,000 PPV buys. A 1/4 of what any McGregor PPV makes at this point. He is a non-factor. Perhaps GSP could get closer (800k-1million), but that's it. Ronda is the only one who can do over a million and it's still significantly less than Conor. 207 will be really interesting what number it makes on PPV; I expect it to be about 1.1-1.2 M. I think despite the loss, there is going to be a lot of interest in how she looks after the loss; especially in mainstream. Also, when Conor lost to Nate, his drawing power did not suffer one bit. It's not boxing, the W-L records aren't everything.

I think Conor will fight Nate next; that trilogy fight will not be available forever and is an easy cash-in. Khabib also makes sense and is a terrible stylistic matchup, but I think Khabib/Tony should be next as a title eliminator and if that happens then the 'inactive Khabib' excuse may not be relevant anymore and he could fight Conor afterwards. Personally, I'd love for Conor to go back to 145 and defend it against Dominick Cruz. I know he's a smaller guy, but when healthy the guy has been on the league of his own. And his challenges (movement, avoiding shots) to Conor would be completely different than any other possible opponent. Plus, he is very well spoken and would be able to talk proper trash and sell himself to general public. I just hope he doesn't decide to get the third belt. He had so much difficulties against Nate and he is not even a true 170. We have weight classes for a reason.

Jeeper · #5 11-15-2016, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walleris

What favor by Jon Jones? His return fight vs. OSP only made 425,000 PPV buys. A 1/4 of what any McGregor PPV makes at this point. He is a non-factor. Perhaps GSP could get closer (800k-1million), but that's it. Ronda is the only one who can do over a million and it's still significantly less than Conor. 207 will be really interesting what number it makes on PPV; I expect it to be about 1.1-1.2 M. I think despite the loss, there is going to be a lot of interest in how she looks after the loss; especially in mainstream. Also, when Conor lost to Nate, his drawing power did not suffer one bit. It's not boxing, the W-L records aren't everything.

I think Conor will fight Nate next; that trilogy fight will not be available forever and is an easy cash-in. Khabib also makes sense and is a terrible stylistic matchup, but I think Khabib/Tony should be next as a title eliminator and if that happens then the 'inactive Khabib' excuse may not be relevant anymore and he could fight Conor afterwards. Personally, I'd love for Conor to go back to 145 and defend it against Dominick Cruz. I know he's a smaller guy, but when healthy the guy has been on the league of his own. And his challenges (movement, avoiding shots) to Conor would be completely different than any other possible opponent. Plus, he is very well spoken and would be able to talk proper trash and sell himself to general public. I just hope he doesn't decide to get the third belt. He had so much difficulties against Nate and he is not even a true 170. We have weight classes for a reason.

Jon Jones has done Conor a favour by continually messing up. He had it all, size, reach, technique. Likability. His popularity has taken a huge hit these past few years. Human nature sees people move onto the next big thing. Timing was perfect. It's not a slight on Conor - he has worked extremely hard to land his position at the top of the tree.

But it's not just PPV figures. Jones got a lot of media coverage. He was considered by many to be the best UFC fighter ever. (Premature for me)

All I'm saying is there's no denying Jones' absence came at a time when the UFC was in lift off mode. Would he have rivalled Conor if things had played out differently? - maybe not.

I agree a loss doesn't spell the end of a fighter's popularity. But multiple losses can. Certainly with someone like Conor who appeals to casual fight fans. IF Diaz had beat him twice, his next fight would have been critical. A 3rd straight defeat loses you the band-wagon fan. It's how it is. Thankfully he didn't.

Dominic Cruz is a beast. That would be a very hard fight. I think 145 is less appealing for Conor these days. That weight cut is a killer.

Tyrone Woodley has already made noises about a potential match up with Conor. Please no. He's too big. And he can punch. It would be a bad idea. Stick to 155.

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Walleris · #6 11-15-2016, 05:57 PM

Jones is a beast and (if not for messing up) could go down as the greatest MMA fighter ever. That being said, even at the height of his powers, his star was never nowhere as bright as Conor's and the numbers prove it.

Jeeper · #7 11-15-2016, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walleris

Jones is a beast and (if not for messing up) could go down as the greatest MMA fighter ever. That being said, even at the height of his powers, his star was never nowhere as bright as Conor's and the numbers prove it.

I agree - but I think there are a few factors why. While a Conor v whoever is a huge PPV, it's naturally easier to sell if there's no other credible star out there.

I'm not criticising Conor. I think he's brilliant. My initial post was more about him forcing the UFC into sticking to their guns - presumably Conor would too - then we're left at stalemate. Don't forget they dropped him from UFC200 for pushing it too far. (I actually agreed with Conor on that one)

Jon Jones made it look effortless. Who would have genuinely tested him? (When he's fit and focused)

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Walleris · #8 11-15-2016, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeeper

I agree - but I think there are a few factors why. While a Conor v whoever is a huge PPV, it's naturally easier to sell if there's no other credible star out there.

I'm not criticising Conor. I think he's brilliant. My initial post was more about him forcing the UFC into sticking to their guns - presumably Conor would too - then we're left at stalemate. Don't forget they dropped him from UFC200 for pushing it too far. (I actually agreed with Conor on that one)

Jon Jones made it look effortless. Who would have genuinely tested him? (When he's fit and focused)

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Yes, Jones made it look effortless, but I was speaking purely from a commercial standpoint. Conor and Ronda used to be on a league of their own (and Jones was not there). Now, unless 207 deliver at least 1.5 million buys, Conor will be in the league of his own. That's why he has a lot of leverage with the UFC now due to them being under greater than ever pressure to deliver record profits and make return on investment. Whereas Jones, commercially, was on the level of Anderson Silva, GSP, etc.

Jeeper · #9 11-15-2016, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walleris

Yes, Jones made it look effortless, but I was speaking purely from a commercial standpoint. Conor and Ronda used to be on a league of their own (and Jones was not there). Now, unless 207 deliver at least 1.5 million buys, Conor will be in the league of his own. That's why he has a lot of leverage with the UFC now due to them being under greater than ever pressure to deliver record profits and make return on investment. Whereas Jones, commercially, was on the level of Anderson Silva, GSP, etc.

I agree with you - I think the point I was trying to make was Jones "should" have reached that elite (commercial) level but for a series of stupid mistakes. As it stands, you are quite right - Conor is King.

But I still think he should be careful how he proceeds. Wanting a bigger purse is nothing compared to wanting a share in the company. As huge a draw as he is, this is the fight business and you're only making money if you are fighting.

As a business they will project future PPV's & (roughly) have an idea what Conor might bring to the company over the next X amount of years. (all subject to continued wins/public interest and fitness)

The bottom line will be does he potentially bring in more than the purse & equity share he's asking for (bare in mind he may fight for another 7yrs but want a share for life)

If the forecast is no - he's in a difficult position.

It's all if's and but's. Going public isn't always the best way. It doesn't help the UFC when negotiating contracts with other fighters if they know Conor is on a huge purse AND has a share in the company too.

Dana said as much in regards to Conor not showing up for press commitments at UFC200. If he let it slide, it sets a precedent.

We'll see what happens. All this is a sideshow. I'm still in awe of how easy Conor beat Eddie. I think there are some dangerous fights at 155. But he looks so healthy at that weight. I can't wait to see which direction they go in next. (Not 170 please)

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Jeeper · #10 11-17-2016, 12:56 AM

Floyd Mayweather having a dig at Conor. He's got a point but it's bollocks he never knew Conor was even fighting.

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