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  #141  
Old 05-05-2010, 09:15 AM
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UKjovi UKjovi is offline
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Originally Posted by Jim Bon Jovi View Post
Well it's been pissing down here all week so that's surely a sign that Cameron is going to win.

I'm just waiting for the locusts.
Why do Tory voters like the rain?
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  #142  
Old 05-05-2010, 09:43 AM
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Stuffing the economy with money will eventually result in a higher debt then when you try to let the economy work for you. Japan, Greece and I heard even Spain is getting in trouble and Spain has a role of 11% in the economy of Europe which is quite a lot.

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  #143  
Old 05-05-2010, 01:46 PM
C'monFeet C'monFeet is offline
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Having said all this i can see Labour winning, mainly because people will get frightened of change.
It's not that people are frightened of "change". It's that people believe the Tories haven't changed and remember the division and pain of Thatcher's Britain. As bad as Labour has been, it hasn't ended in riots.

I disagree strongly with the Guardian writers who say that the only choice to keep the Tories out is to vote Labour, but this piece gets across why it matters.


I warn you that the economy could slide back into despair. Maybe people have not paid attention to this argument because Gordon Brown has been making it, but the danger is real. A sudden shut-off of the public spending tap could well send a frail recovery staggering back into recession: the dreaded double-dip. It's happened elsewhere and could happen here. The US and other economies are seeing the tide turn, but that's because they've kept the public cash coming. Cameron's aim, played down in the rhetoric because it polled so badly, is to cut spending immediately, ushering in what he once proudly trumpeted as an "age of austerity".

If Britain were to return to recession, then brace yourself. For many, this last downturn has not quite felt like the worst since the Great Depression, whatever the economists say. Unemployment, house repossessions and bankruptcies are all fractions of what they were in the 1990s recession. That's not by accident. It's a function of Labour's active interventionism, which has sought to reduce the impact of the downturn on those at the sharpest end. Such state activity clashes with every Conservative instinct. Cameron still describes government as more problem than solution. Last time the Tories were in charge, dealing with a recession that was actually much less severe, the pain was greater and the weakest suffered most. There is nothing in current Tory policy – despite Cameron's final debate plea to the camera that it's "the most vulnerable, the most frail and the poorest" he truly cares about – to suggest it won't be like that again.

Indeed, there are at least three signs that point in a gloomy direction. First, despite all the austerity talk, the Tories have clung to their promise to give an inheritance tax break to the 3,000 richest families in the country. In the words of Nick Clegg, it's the "double-millionaires" Cameron wants to help. And yet, given the hole in the public finances, cash will have to come from somewhere. The obvious source – not that the Conservative leader has ever been challenged on it – is an increase in VAT. That's the most regressive of all taxes, inflicting disproportionate pain on the poorest: pain that will only deepen with the coming Tory assault on tax credits. A third cause for alarm can be expressed in three words: Chancellor George Osborne.

I warn you not to have an urgent need for the NHS. Sure, the Tories say they've ringfenced health spending, but check the small print. They plan to drop Labour's guarantee on waiting times. No longer will any patient be sure to see a cancer specialist within two weeks: under the Tories, that decision will be left to the consultant. Fine for the sharp-elbowed middle class, who are used to barging their way to the front of the queue. Not so good for the poorest who, all the data shows, struggle to get the most from public services.

I warn you not to be a single mother or widow. You'll get less than those who are married. Not that much less – about £3 a week – but just enough to know that the tax system regards you as a second-class citizen and to remind you of how life used to be under the Conservatives, when single parents were a routine target for public mockery and scolding.

I warn you that we will be back to the sterile relationship with Europe of the 1990s, a British government once again on the margins, but aligned this time with homophobes, rank antisemites and assorted apologists for fascism. Prepare within weeks for a Cameron stunt, demanding negotiations to "repatriate" powers back to Westminster. Britain is set once again to become the club bore of the EU, happily swallowing the agenda of economic liberalisation but moaning about sovereignty in the abstract, annoying the other members but never having the courage to up and leave.
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  #144  
Old 05-05-2010, 01:49 PM
C'monFeet C'monFeet is offline
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  • Will you stay up to watch the result?

  • What do you think the result will be?

  • What do you want the result to be?

It's hardly Obama, but one way or another we will wake up in a different country on Friday, and you haven't been able to say that in years.
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  #145  
Old 05-05-2010, 01:56 PM
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- Yes, with drinking games.

- Small Tory overall majority, Labour ****ing punished into third place.

- Hung Parliament. In a fantasy world, Lib Dems win the popular vote but come second or third in seats - I just want more voices at the table and a real discussion of issues. We have an overload of rhetoric. Labour still ****ing punished into third place.

They really have let the country down. I can't articulate it clearly, but they have caused such damage to society, have ruled by fear, pushed the Governement into every corner of everyday life, divided society, bowed-down to the ****ing Daily Mail... Awful, awful party atm.
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  #146  
Old 05-05-2010, 02:15 PM
Jim Bon Jovi Jim Bon Jovi is offline
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I'm curious as to what these drinking games will be.
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  #147  
Old 05-05-2010, 03:11 PM
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Just a quick update, Brown was absolutely amazing (but he's been on form all week really, just a shame its took him so long to find his voice! the speech he gave at the citizens uk assembly was brilliant and is currently the highest viewed video on youtube uk)

anyway last night was a rally call, he listed labours achievements over the last 13 years and bloody hell have they done some amazing things;

"You know, it’s been pretty relentless. Non-stop, on the go, never a moment’s let up, working round the clock.

I don’t mean the last four weeks…. I mean the last 13 years. Because we’ve been busy.

Busy changing lives. Busy changing communities. Busy changing this country for the better and forever.

The minimum wage first enacted in 1997.

First £3.60 an hour, now £5.80 an hour and now, in Labour’s manifesto, a minimum wage set to rise in the coming parliament not to £6 an hour – but to £7 an hour.


And I’ll tell you what else we’ve done together. On the first day of this campaign, I met a teacher. This isn’t one of those David Cameron type stories – I really did meet her, and she really was a teacher…

And do you know what she said to me about the difference we had made? That back under the Tories she used to teach with a bucket beside her desk because she never knew when the classroom would leak and the kids would have to learn in their coats.

But now – after 3,700 schools have been rebuilt or refurbished with Labour – teachers know that we not only fixed the roof when the sun was shining but built hundreds of wholly new schools – and now it’s not old buckets in the classroom but new laptops, new whiteboards and new teaching assistants.

And do you know what else we’ve achieved by fighting?

- the shortest NHS waiting times in history

- three million more operations a year

- over 44,000 more doctors

- 90,000 more nurses

- GPs open into the evenings and at weekends

- free cancer prescriptions

- a two-week maximum wait to see a cancer specialist

- over 100 new hospitals

- the Winter Fuel Allowance

- free TV licences and free bus passes for pensioners

- the Pension Credit

- the New Deal for the Unemployed

- full-time rights for part-time workers

- the Social Chapter

- record maternity pay

- for the first time in history the right to paternity leave

- the biggest programme of council house building for 20 years

- the Disability Discrimination Act

- the Racial and Religious Hatred act

- the Equalities Act

- the first black cabinet minister

- the first Muslim minister

- the first black woman minister to speak at the Commons despatch box

- civil partnerships, gay adoption, the repeal of Section 28 and yes the right to book into a bed and breakfast

- devolution: a Scottish Parliament, a Welsh Assembly and, yes, even a Mayor for London

- the transformation of our great cities with bright new dawns for Leeds, Sheffield, Birmingham, Newcastle, Bristol, Glasgow, Edinburgh and Manchester

- the Human Rights Act

- crime down by a third

- the hand gun ban

- domestic violence cut by two thirds and rape convictions up by half

- more police than ever on our streets

- the world’s first ever Climate Change Act

- beating the Kyoto emissions targets

- the tripling of overseas aid

- the cancelling of debt of the poorest countries

- the ban on cluster bombs

- peace in Northern Ireland

- a Britain in Europe’s mainstream not in Europe’s slipstream

- free swimming for kids

- free museum entry

- the right to roam

- banning fox hunting

- the Olympics for London

- half a million children out of poverty

- extended schools

- 42,000 more teachers

- the best ever exam results in schools

- Education Maintenance Allowances

- record numbers of students – and for the first time the majority of students are women

- a doubling of apprenticeships

- a Child Trust Fund for every newborn child

- Sure Start children’s centres

- free nursery places

- and Child Tax Credits that this Labour government brought in and which a Tory government would cut because they just do not get it, never have, never will.

So when people say that politics can’t change anything – we reply it can – it has – and it will.

And that is why today, in this first election of a post crisis world, we are fighting for what we will be able to look back on, list, and commend in five years time. Because even as we act to cut the deficit, if we make the right decisions now, it will mean by 2015;

- cancer tests within not two weeks but one week

- free health check ups for the over 40s

- a restored link between pensions and earnings

- one million new skilled jobs

- broadband access for all

- a national care service

- a Post Office people’s bank

- more free nursery places

- a father’s month of leave for new dads

- a new toddler tax credit

- 10 thousand new council homes a year

- protection of local pubs and post offices

- an independent and thriving BBC

- low carbon energy and thousands of new green jobs

- a referendum on electing the Lords and changing the voting system

- and yes I can say today for more than a minimum wage – a rising minimum wage – every year a rising minimum wage

That is the offer of a Labour government – that’s the change we choose.

Our plan for the future. We fight for the right to make it happen. Because I say to the British people - it is a fight not for me, it is a fight for you - for your jobs, your living standards, your tax credits, your schools and your hospitals.

That is our fight, and it’s a fight we have to win."

so thats an edited version of the speech but if anyones interested in the full version you can find it here ... http://www2.labour.org.uk/fighting-f...e-gordon-brown

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also i had front row seats (well the first row that wasnt reserved ) !i quickly sat down opposite Mandleson, Ed Balls, Yvette Cooper and Andy Burnham. I met Sarah Brown and wished her luck on thursday, and told Gordon to keep fighting!

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  #148  
Old 05-05-2010, 03:15 PM
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hometownboy hometownboy is offline
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Answers to Cmon Feets questions

- Yeah i'll be staying up!
- I reckon it'll be a hung parliament and labour will have the most seats
- I want a labour majority but that would need a miracle!
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  #149  
Old 05-05-2010, 03:24 PM
C'monFeet C'monFeet is offline
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I'm curious as to what these drinking games will be.
Any old excuse.
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  #150  
Old 05-05-2010, 03:26 PM
C'monFeet C'monFeet is offline
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- record numbers of students – and for the first time the majority of students are women
I started uni in 1997 - the year Labour came to power.

It was free.

A student today will face £10k debt for tuition fees alone.

This is a good thing how?
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