UN Headquarters in Iraq bombed...

Pro-war to to me means anyone who thinks the United States did the good, or even marginally acceptable thing in Iraq. No I don't think that anyone who's not anti-war is stockpiling handgrenades. I just think they should take a good hard look at the destruction they either laud or condone. There were other options. We just didn't look hard enough. We didn't care enough about the lives we were planning on taking to look for another solution, if indeed there was a problem requiring a solution, which I believe there wasn't. We had and still have no business even setting foot in the country.

My healthy distrust of government is actually closer to burning hatred than distrust. I try and imagine all the lies that have been told to people, all the freedoms we've given up, all the lives that have been taken, and it makes me want to hurt the people responsible. Not Iraqis, not Taliban, the politicians who are strangling the life and security out of just about every country on earth, including my own. I'm not a patriot, I don't consider "my" country great by any means. Any country where a display of the 10 Commandments has to be removed from a court of law doesn't deserve to call itself great. But I do believe this country has the potential to be far, far better than what it is right now.

I've read and watched all the pro-war crap I can stomach for one lifetime. Back in March and April it was on the cover of every magazine, on every tv show, in every discussion. I'm still keeping my ears open, but I've chosen my side, and only a miracle will make me change it.

Adrian

Mike - thanks for the welcome. I think on the war issue...for now...we will have to agree to differ! But I get the feeling that we will cross swords again on another issue, and maybe even agree with other on yet more issues. I enjoy debating, and don't like it when things degrade into name calling, or childishness!

Adrian....it's clear that you and I are poles apart on the war issue. As I said, everyones opinion is valid, and yours is clearly very important to you. I hope you stand by your principles...but stop short of hurting the people you say you'd like to. As you are so proud anti-war it would be to the detriment of your beliefs if you were sucked into some kind of urban terrorism in the name of them. I sincerly hope you find a non-violant way to promote your beliefs, and wish you luck if you want to change America. I would suggest that if your hatred is that high of your elected officials, and the system within which you live, that you look for another country to call home!

On a side note - I don't see what place the 10 commandmants has in a court of law. Why should a set of rules for life taken from one religious book be displayed above others? Why is that religion's rules any more valid than anothers?

i'm pro war. i don't think it;s a great or glorious thing but there's some times when u can sit back and watch and some times when u have to go and kick someones balls and this happens to be the later.

not piling up the hang grenades yet soho but im deadly serious about getting some guns as soon as the animals start blowing themselves up over here.

Jim Bon Jovi:So our war effort is completely justified, the scenario I described in my second to last post here is just an "oops, life sucks" moment for the Iraqis? Why exactly did we have to do something? From what I've heard, most of Saddam's missiles weren't even able to make it out of his own country and his link to terrorists was thin, at best. Turns out, when we discovered an Al-Qaida training camp in Iraq, it was in the territory of our Iraqi allies. Did we have to do something about Iraq because of its crappy human rights situation? Well, look out China! China has worse human rights violations, and actually has nuclear weapons. Why aren't you advocating attacking China? Or are they too much of a hard target? Because they might be able to give as good as they'd get? Because its easier to attack and then justify the damaging of countries that can't defend themselves? So please, tell me why Iraq was such a serious threat, and China isn't. And why China should not be next on our list of countries to "liberate".

Your right to own guns and use them in self defense is in no way related to the invasion of Iraq. I support that right to the utmost. And the "animals" of which you speak are no more animals than the soldiers that you believe are doing the right thing over in Iraq. They're both invading someone else's country with intent to kill. I'm simply amazed you can't see the connection there. The only difference is, one kills with a bomb strapped to his body, the other kills with a bomb dropped from several miles in the air. One kills with an RPG launcher, the other kills with a government issued M-16. The weapon used doesn't make the target any less dead. The weapon of choice doesn't make the user any less of a killer, or the killing any more or less justified. The only exception to not killing is self defense. I believe you have the right to use any and all means neccessary to defend your life, property, and the lives of the people you care about.

Sohosid:I don't think the viewpoints of Christianity are any more valid than those of Islam, Judaism, or any of the other thousands of religions. I'd still support monuments to their laws in a court. I'd be honored to have a monument to the higher laws of Islam my court if I was a judge. Also, I don't believe I have much power to change anything in my government. All I can do is try and vote in the officials that I think would take the least amount of money from me before I die. No more, no less. I'm not going to join a gang do drive-bys on the Wisconsin governer's mansion, my sense of right and wrong won't let me do that. But I don't think I'd feel all that bad if Tommy Franks or George Bush Jr bought it either. And I have thought about moving out of the country. Only problem is, there's no country that's not a sister country to the US. Canada, England, Germany, the US, its all the same to me. They may have different customs, they may call their senates and presidents different names, but the same system is in place in every one of them.

Adrian

no war is ever totally justified but it doesn't mean that i'm going to sit back and say we should never go to war.

fair enough maybe some of the reasons for going to war are hypocritical etc... but there's also good reasons.

good or bad, there's only 1 winner and u may as well be on the winning side.

Easy to say when your sitting in your arm chair....

sorry i forgot you're sitting behind enemy lines as we speak.

No war except for a war of defense is ever justified. And as for this war, I'd rather be identified with the side that's got some moral ground to stand on. The side that's defending its home. I may not be picking up an AK-47 and shooting at American troops, but I find I can sympathize with the Iraqis far more than the Americans. Our reasons for attacking and invading Iraq weren't just hypocritical, they were outright lies. Fallacies wrapped up in patriotism and fear and handed to a (for the most part) blindly accepting American public.

Adrian

for every bit or pro war propaganda, there's a bit of anti-war propaganda. a thing alot of people lose sight of.

On a percentage basis - the amount of anti-war propoganda we have received during this last war has been minimal compared to the pro-war propoganda.

& the fact that the war has encouraged terrorism isn't propoganda anymore.