Was it a goal or not?

Yes, unfortunately if you challenge the keeper in the area, the rules say its a foul - but it was more a case of the keeper challenging Campbell in the case we have been discussing, which isn't a foul as Sol stood his ground and didn't fall over like a pansy - like Ricardo did!

Exactly the point!!! Just like you wouldn't (and you did not) get away with a FOUL on the keeper THERE!

Well not really, Ricardo wanted to challenge Campbell but Terry stopped him, so foul.

And I'll end this here, it's been discussed enough.

Ponrauil

Tell me which is more detrimental to the game - diving and thus cheating or challenging a goalkeeper as though he is the same as any other player on the field (which he is)?

Fact is, goalkeepers get way too much protection from referees despite the fact that in a 50/50 challenge between them and an opposing player, they will come out on top every time because they have the advantage of a pair of hands which can, theoretically reach higher than any player could jump!

Keepers come up on top most of the time because players are not allowed to challenge them. If they were, keepers wouldn't dare coming out of their cage that often, and they'd be a lot of crap goals like the one rightfully denied to England.

Ponrauil

Are we still going with this? Get over it, it wasn't a goal(my snillies aren't working so... imagine a roll of the eyes here!

It's ruined quite a lot of the football this tournement. I'm not saying that England are innocent all of the time because they aren't, but in the Prem dives aren't so common and any of it is punished. So for a lot of the English football fans this is a big topic. Something needs to be sorted out with it.

Keeper's just aren't hardened enough and fall over at any opportunity because they know that the ref will blow his whistle. IMO, giving keeper's less protection would do the game a lot less harm than to let diving foreign players con the officials so easily with no threat of severe punishment other than a yellow card if they happen to be pulled up for it - oooo, I bet they're so scared!

Keepers get more protection, yes, and rightfully so. As I said already if a forward fails the ball it's usually not too bad, if a goalie does it is usually a goal and he is the idiot of the nation.
Diving is insolent and should be punished a lot more, but it has nothing to do with the correctly not given goal.

So you're saying it was a goal now? Whether it was or it wasn't, the fact is we lost and I'm upset about it. you keep saying we lost like I don't know that. I'm upset about it but obviously there is nothign anybody can do.

[quote="Iceman"]That really is pathetic. The word JUST hear could apply to anything people care about... It's Just politics, It's Just work... The fact is these things which are JUST are very important if they're important to you. A game's not important to you, so what, I'm not getting on your back because of it, don't get on mine because a game does mean a lot to me!

[quote="Iceman"]Yes dip shit the ref is there to interpret the rule book... The only difference between the ref interpreting the rule and a fan is that the ref has controle, it does not mean he is any more correct.

Take the Maradona handball incident. Replay shows it was a clear handball, but the ref did not interpret the incident as being a hand ball... So you're saying that his hand didn't touch the ball??? Ref's get it wrong, he may say that he got it right (90% of the time they'd say that even if afterwards they did get it wrong), but other refs thought the goal should have stood. I'm happy to listen to people who thought the ref got it right, I'm not happy to listen to people who say fans should not be able to question a ref's judgement!!!!

Put into context again, you have a leader in democracies to make decisions, you disagree, are you wrong to disagree because you have no real power to make a difference?