Was it a goal or not?

How about rephrasing that cos the way you've put it, if a player runs under the ball as it drops under the bar and gets there before the goalkeeper he's not allowed to jump for it cos the keeper's nearby - as was the case in Sol Campbell's goal! Sol got there first (with Terry), they both jumped, the keeper jumped towards and into them and as Sol came down, he landed on John Terry.

Referee said that it wasn't a goal so it wasn't a goal.. not matter how long you talk about it.

As a fan of England & English football, I felt that it was a goal but in the end of a day the referee is the one who makes the decisions on the pitch and we just have to live with that.

Teemu

But because they won the world cup in 1966 they can't lose!

I think mretos point was pretty well proven. It's the English against the rest of the world.

If the referee says it's a goal, it's a goal. There's no second guessing, no buts,ifs or maybes. You lost.

Ice

What has '66 got to do with anything Ice? Don't confuse the English fans with the English press or English commentators!

That's not why people discuss things.

The ref makes the call, but it doesn't mean he makes the right call. Yes the goal didn't stand, nothing can change that. But football fans will still look at the incident, and question the refs decisions. The fact is after virtually any decision taken by a ref it will be questioned by looking at the cameras. That happens for throw ins, off sides e.t.c, everything is up for debate. So the fact that decision can not be changed has no relevence what so ever. People have accepted we lost, accepted the fact that the team didn't play well enough, but the fact is a big decision went against us, and it cost us. If the goal stood then we get through on a less than convincing peformance, but then it's about the luck on that decision... the chance was created for us to win the game and we took it, it's worth saying that we were unlucky not to win.

Lots of countries have won the world cup, why England be so special? Fact is we won it, it's part of our sporting history and football fans are proud of that! Doesn't mean we think we're the best, or that we are in a better possition to beat teams because of it, but it's part of our history and is somethign to remember... I've never heard any pundit, or newspaper saying that England winning the world cup has any bearing on what happens now. All it means is our football history is slighly more impressive than say Spain's.

ricardo couldnt jump so...

http://drycounty.com/jovitalk/viewto...r=asc&start=45

And there's no need to discuss something you can't change. No matter how hard you wish for the goal to stand, it won't. The game has been played, there's no point in wallowing in it. And the same goes with the world cup of 1966. Get over it already.

Ice

To be honest that link isn't really relevant to this discussion for one reason Ice - Mike McRock was posting in response to somebody's claim that England had never won anything (which we have! It may have been 38 years ago but it still counts and very few countries can claim to have achieved anything like it) but he wasn't implying that '66 gave us any god-given right to win any subsequent tournament after that, and neither has it been mentioned in this topic at all until you brought it up!

This whole discussion was about the naff ref and Mike summed it up perfectly above. Stop introducing irrelevant things - like '66 - to a completely different game - you sound like an ITV commentator!

Yes there is, this is a discussion board and we can discuss what we like!

We know, but that doesn't mean we can't feel aggrieved and talk about it - a bit like Maradonna's 'hand of God' still get's talked about - which robbed us too incidentally!

We're not wallowing, we're discussing. Annoyed? Yes. Wallowing? No. As you said, there'd be no point to it and there are more important things to life than football. And we have gotten over '66 which is why we get annoyed when people use it out of context as though it has some sort of bearing on our performance in every tournament, so why bring it up at all unless it is simply to prove that England have won something in the past (which we are proud of and have a right to be!)

Name one thing that Bon Jovi have changed as a result of a comment you have posted during a discussion on Jovi talk.