Your very first post??

"My first post on the board - just testing! "

haha busted !

lol this is a great topic goin' back in time over here...

^ & your second - lol

this is hilarious, we were all terrible weren't we?!

LOL

Hehe

I knew Tom wouldn't let me down!!

My 1st post

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 4:12 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I see your points but I think all he is saying is that what did Bon jovi always say they wanted to be a live band, Tico is one of greatest drummers in the world yet they persist in drum machines, david bryan is far from the world's greatest keyboard player but he's not in the type of band that demands that of him. I know he can be an excellent player as will anyone who has some of the 80s bootlegs etc but songs such as homebound train, let it rock... nowadays it seems the only time he gets to shine is on the outro piano solo to sleep when i'm dead.

These Days is one of my favourite albums and a much underrated one i think - even by the majority of fans... but as Nige said if that is an example of Bon Jovi's writing trends from circa 1994 onwards then they, to me, proved they were capable of writing great songs... These days has some of Richie's best guitar work in it... very bluesy at times... it for me is certainly the album with the whole range of BJS music... the heavy rock of Hey God, to the balladry of bitter wine, to the atmospheric, stadium/gospel like .'.. letting you go'...

it shouldn't matter that the band are getting older... musically age does not take its toll at all and any musician knows that the more practice makes you better... so 20 years of practice should mean you are a better musician than after about 7... its just common sense... there is no cut-off point. The only thing that alters is the singing because that is physically affected by age... your voice changes of course. But in my opinion (you are all wrong saying Jon's voice is better than ever)... it is still excellent and in some ways is better than the 1984/85 voice in terms of strength and stability (certainly not range)... the best time for Jon's voice was 1987-93, when he could combine those 2 aspects: range and stability/strength. The fact though that Jon's voice in many ways is more bold than on Crush and that live he can switch in and out of the old Jon at times to me means that the only excuse for a change in sound is not age or ability but the way they have chosen to use it... and at the end of the day it is to sell records (i'm not shooting them down for this, all bands do it)... but I heard the Total Rock show also and they were dead right to be honest... they (presenters) were saying how they were one of the best bands and are POTENTIALLY the best but that there came a time when they Jon decided to try to be Billy Joel (in songwriting terms. not live of course) and that this changed their style. These Days I will remind you i think is one of their best... in fact roughly I'd say... NJ, Slippery, 7800, These Days, KTF, BJ, Bounc, Crush...

.... please if this is going to be a proper argument since I have written a lot here don't ignore all the points I have made and turn this into a "you have the order wrong... because bounce is the greatest album ever" because if this is going to be discussed properly (a discussion board being that it is and all) let's stick to the point at least and actually have a friendly debate (i'm not gay no! lol) but in other words it would be nice to actually discuss this without it turning into a string of posts shooting someone down for making a point, and one that has quite a bit of validity to be honest, however it was worded.

I don't think anyone should live in the past and say that BJ should be the band they once were again because maybe just due to the time in their lives etc (in all honesty rock and roll doesn't work as well conceptually within the confides of family... at the end of the day it is still a rebellious artform not that many would remember that)...

however I think Nige's point about cinderella, poison etc... if you consider that properly their only similarity with BJ was that they were around at the same time. Musically they were what the critics claim BJ are... (not my opinion) and they were people in it only for the sex and the drugs and the money... they were wild but musically their music had a very poppy tinge to it (basic A-E-A-E-B-A-E type of music ABABCBA)... so i don't think it is fair to compare...

I think the best comparison would be the Scorpions in a sense... people forget they have been going since 1965 !!! but around 1972 in terms of having a record contract and though their sound changed... it changed in 1979 from a very artful music hendrix/zeppelin/cream/free sounding style to the 80s style we associate with early BJ... however they to this day have strayed a little like BJ have but they have always at least stuck to this 2nd formula because at the end of the day they are a rock band.

Springsteen, Dylan, Young (and many more) are the real songwriters and by that I mean the Shakespeares of rock n roll... and they did it first and truthfully if you look at Bruce today he has not been beaten lyrically. Springsteen & The E Street band are one of the greatest live bands also... but musically bon Jovi are potentially much stronger (certainly some songs from the late 80s, early 90s)...

I like to think that in many ways I have a lot in common with the early bon jovi at my age (1 when life for him was music, music, music and he was writing and living out that life (not the sex, drugs bit but the music and the sheer love of it and from sseeing Zeppelin, Springstee, SSJ, Young and others he saw it in its glory and didn't copy it but gave it a unique twist...

I just like to think that at the age the band like to keep reminding us in interview of 40 and Tico nearly 50 of course the band should not begin living in the past again but should not try competing with the Britney Spears' etc because as we all know the music industry is corrupt and is owned, run and managed by the "interests"... emerging bands which I dislike... coldplay etc are seen as the people who are helping R&R reemerge and by the majority (again not me as I see it for what it is) as also being embodied in the form of this nu-rock...

... a sound BJ have appeared to not copy but INCLUDE in their sound... with the Drop D tunings, the voice effects, drum loops...

all i dislike is that BJ can't see that at this time their is a resurgance of Rock N Roll - or at least what the media and corporations seem to think is rock n roll... and though its still in a minority it really is becoming ever popular and is taking that title...

This should be Bon Jovi's opportunity to show exactly what R&R should be... I'm not saying it should be NJ... BJ have always been rock anyway rather than R&R but rock music should be about a bunch of guys with chemistry on stage doing what they love, what would kill them were they not doing it, and mixing as quality musicians...

... however, and to address original post again, this album especially there are no real keyboard parts (maybe something like Joey but that is just chordal)... in other words Dave's place to shine is to press a buttom on his synth modulater keyboard which plays a drum loop sound with triangles pinging etc...

this means of course that the only people who shine live are JBJ (because he is the frontman and the man who has attracted the 75% female audience - that has to be more than accurate also!) and Richie of course because he is also at the front of the stage and is one of the greatest rock guitarists (certainly of the 80s school) and if you are prepared to look obviously Tico because he still embodies that 80s style of drumming and music... he could always turn the indiviudaly mics up on the drums but instead he really hits them hard for the whole night and does not let up in his stage performance....

... in such a way Tico is the only person I feel is not holding back something from their earlier style. I rememebr being told too that Hugh has always been with the band (one way or another) and even that he recorded the bass parts in the studio for songs like Homebound Train... i still think it is silly the way he gets no credit for what he does and while he is from the bass school of Entwistle or Garry talltent (conservative, doesn't take spotlight just does his thing) he is a great bass player.

I have to admit that I am a little upset that you are all so quick to shoot someone down for making such a valid point and that now you will either take mine apart and turn this topic into a "should hugh be in spotlight", "Dave is greatest player in world how dare you say otherwise", etc etc etc etc ... either that or you just plain won't read all that I have written as I am aware how much i have written... it will annoy me more when I get 3 word replies because noone can think of anytning constructive to take out of this and build on.... but that's fine...

it just annoys me sometimes when what I said about music industry in an x-files conspiracy type of way covering its tracks, protecting its interests, shedding them when they are no longer needed, hiding opinions and feelings...

... that BJ fans can appear to be the same. BJ do something therefore best in the world... because it is happening now and didn't happen 10 years ago it is also the best thing they have done... i listened to the cd yesterday and it is greatest in the world... those sort of comments.

Despite the fact I hate the word fan I think anyone who from the age of 12- present has spent so much money and time in BJ whether in collecting bootlegs, videos, cds, concert tickets, etc is in fact a fan... and the only real fan is one who isn't a "yes"-man" and can say if something is good or bad... after all a fan gets into music because he likes something about it, which is what I did... the fact that it may be the same band doing it doesn't mean this style of music that i became a fan for in the first place has stayed the same, but quite the opposite... i am still a great fan because of that but mainly out of knowing the potential.

In terms of he/she (guessing he) posting a link to his site so what? as far as i am aware reading the topic reviews in this window that is just his signature anyway instead of a comment made specifically for this post. And unlike you i decided to give the page a lookin and some of the music sounds good, or at least has that potential... I think it is awful the way the board runs by majority rule and that you assume that just because he riughtly ackonwledges bounce is not great from the band that you know who this person is and that he must be a moron for saying that. For all I know he is but I know that the biggest morons are the ones that go straight on the offense and would rather offend someone than actually listening with them or trying to reason with them.

Cheers if anyone bothers reading this which i doubt you will.

/\ and some people complain saying Tom's become impossible oh he's been all along!