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I found the THINFS performance painful to listen to vocally. And I just can’t stomach seeing Shanks on stage. For me his increased influence brought about the end of the band we know. I’d rather see Bobby up there doing bits, at least it’s less of a slap in the face.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzsta (Post 1244270)

Anyway in the last several albums, I feel there is close to zero input by Tico. I wrote this somewhere else : to my understanding after say 2005, moreso after 2010, the songs are being worked on with programmed drums. It is just Jon and John, that sit in the studio and record demos using MIDI and such sounds. Everybody else comes in last to play their part. This is why you don't have some nice groovy elements - which were there up to 2002. When songs are rehearsed many times with the whole band before being recorded, there is space for the musicians to add features, to build up a song in a nice way. Now the only one actually working on instrumentation seems to be Shanks, maybe with some little stroke from David here and there. There is surely no time and no space for Tico & Hugh to come up with nice grooves. You can hear how most songs are flat in rhythm. And then after like 10 years, Tico & the guys where one time in the studio and suddenly its a big thing and we have New Years Day (which actually is rather cool rhythmwise). Well Jon, if you would just let loose and play some music with your own band instead of recording songs in a dry professional way, maybe you d arrive at some more neat and interesting tunes!..

All this story is my assumption, I have no inside info on how they work, but some things seem evident to me. Richie's unsatisfaction in his later years with the band might well stem from this. Recording had lost its organic sense, and touring was a business and drag.

I actually have read an interview a little while ago with Shanks about the recording of WAN. If I remember correctly he said that they used a combinations of samples (which they recorded with Tico) and a recording of a real drum set. He told that it was done to make the process easier if I’m correct

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https://www.soundonsound.com/people/...what-about-now This might be the article.

And I don't agree about it being that way until 2002. I would say 2005 was the beginning of this style. 2010 was a Tico heavy time. The Circle's drum parts where pretty rhythmic compared to previous Shanks releases and WAN was a glass of water.

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Originally Posted by Captain_jovi (Post 1244259)

Oh interesting. What interview was this?

I honestly can't recall where it was, but it was Jon reflecting on the WAN period, so I guess maybe somewhere in 2015. Maybe Jackie can find it. I recall it going something like this:
Jon: "I called up Tico iin late 2011 and said that he should come into the studio and play on some demo tracks. He said 'no'. I went 'what you mean, no'? He said 'you said we were gonna have some time off and I want to spend that time with my family etc.'. I said 'ok we'll fool around with any drummer we can find and in the end you come in and play your parts on top of that'."

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Originally Posted by VinceBJ (Post 1244274)

Hence the reason that the record has no soul, no groove, no heart. There's no reason for a band like Bon Jovi to use samples, get Tico to bang them out, or don't bother..."easier" is never the best option...god i hate Shanks...

Playing devil's advocate here, what they did with Because we can was 100 percent what they did with It's My Life. Sampling Tico's drum parts and having him play live over his own samples is the same production process. I don't know if that's a Shanks thing as much as we want it to be.

Fair point. But I think that the difference is that it was done to get a certain sound (the Backstreet Boys sound that all the boy bands were using at the time). I still don't like it, but I get it. To use them just to make the recording process "easier" is no excuse...

To be honest, I have my suspicions that there is more samples and not as much Tico on WAN as we think...

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Originally Posted by Thinny (Post 1244279)

There are rumors that Tico is only on about half of Lost Highway as well. I don't think you're far off. I'm starting to be able to tell the difference between Shanks and Sambora's tones and playing styles but can't tell with Tico.

I agree playing over someone else's work to make the process easier means the band can't be creative. According to that article it seems there were examples of the band starting from scratch from some of the demos so it was the band the whole way through which goes right against what we've thought. I feel like knowing what we know now about Richie's departure and them rushing the album has clouded our judgement. They spent almost a full year demoing the songs and tweaking them apparently.

You may well be right about us being jaded about the whole WAN era....

I do remember saying when Because We Can was released that the guitar work did not sound like Sambora at all, and we do know that he was working on/touring Aftermath for at least some of the WAN process...

I guess we will probably never know the whole story, and like so much about the band, they will only tell us what they want us to know...and keep us guessing the rest!

I know it seems like I'm bashing Shanks again, but it does seem that once he became involved, suddenly the band members became interchangeable on the records and as long as Jon was there, the rest didn't matter. Which to me goes against everything that being a band is. And when you have a band as great as this, why mess with it. As far back as Have a Nice Day they were getting Bobby to play parts in place of Richie (why!?). Is this because Shanks was used to working with solo artists like Melissa Etheridge, etc?