The Beatles were together for a pretty measly 10 year period, and released a lot of crap and filler material in addition to obviously a handful of classic albums (10+ albums in a few years plus endless compilations, quantity over quality in that case..'64 or '65, can't remember)

Not comparing Bon Jovi's music to the Beatles, but SWW, NJ, KTF, TD (and Blaze?) during a 10 year period is a far more consistent effort in my opinion than the Beatles output over a similar time. I love the Beatles of course, just saying. Bon Jovi's run from 86-96 is very impressive, and more prolific than some people give them credit for.

Andi

You could well be right. But I guess there are two dimensions to this for me.

1. The natural decline
2. Decisions exacerbating the decline

All bands get worse as they get older so BJ are no different in that respect. Someone mentioned The Beatles but they only lasted a decade and you look at McCartney's music now. It's not a patch on earlier work so, even for the best, decline is going to happen at some point.

However, for Bon Jovi, is the decline partly a result of the band being sidelined because Jon believes that his is the only vision that matters?

Take IML as a small example. It's a great tune but that "Like Frankie said I did it my way" line is not great in my opinion. Richie didn't want it in there but Jon openly admits that he forced the issue and got that line in there. He says it like it was a good thing, I'm not so sure.

We all know that for SWW, Richie was the driving force in Prayer making the album. That was when they were 'a gang' rather than Jon and band. If SWW was made in 1992-2013, would the song have made the record or would Jon have just said "My band, my management, I'm the CEO and I make the decisions"?

Look at Bounce. Some dogshit songs on there (AALY, YHMFH) and some great demos left out (Another Reason To Believe, Postcards From The Wasteland). If Richie has more of a say, do those songs make the record? They aren't as good as KTF and TD songs IMO but they are better than what made the record. It seems that even Jon and Richie acknowledge that Bounce (or parts of it) was sub-standard now.

The increased focus on politicising the songs seems more a Jon thing to me than Richie. I believe Richie would rather be writing stuff like You Can Only Get So High and Seven Years Gone while Jon wants to write calls to arms (because they've been successful before) and political songs (because he has developed a very admirable social conscience).

I'm not saying that the decline started with KTF. It didn't. KTF and TD are the band's two best efforts for my money. But were they that good because Jon took control or in spite of Jon taking control? And were the seeds of the pace and scale of the decline sewn with Jon taking control of the management of the band and the sidelining of Richie (and David) as songwriters?

Like I say, it's hard to knock Jon because they have had incredible success and it's a discussion that we won't get a definitive answer to. Just interesting to knock ideas about.

Oh I know I'm a dwindling number. It's okay, I'm a Bon Jovi fan - I'm used to being the underdog ;)

But this band has meant so much to me over the years it would be a hard thing to let go of - but I want to be clear - this in no way makes me blind to their faults.

It's not just me though. My wife's been a fan longer than I have and she enjoys the music too. Brokenpromiseland became her favourite song ever.

I was thinking about this earlier. Jon is a work-horse. At least when it comes to writing and recording music. So, why not just do a solo record? Is he afraid of failure without the band? Can he not tolerate playing in anything less than 20,000 seat arenas?

Jon admitted Tico didn't want to go back to work so soon. We all know Dave has a successful career writing music for Broadway. Hugh is essentially just a session player, so what does he care? Richie obviously cares about his solo career, even if few people do.

I think it comes down to Jon being afraid to take too much time off, coming back and having it be labeled as nostalgia or just a money machine, even though we all know that's what it is anyways.

I'm not even sure it's that, though Jon being a work-a-holic is certainly part of it, I think it being the 30 year anniversary also has something to do with being out on the road again so soon.

Whether he likes it or not they are pretty much a nostalgia act now.
Look at how many new songs get dropped from the setlist so quickly.
OK Lost Highway aside - how many songs from HAND, Crush, Bounce and The Circle are played? People want the best songs and these albums dont contain the best songs. Good songs yes but great songs? No.
So where are the best songs from the band? 83-96. The old days.

For many it's 83-88 sadly. These Days songs haven't been on the setlists either.

KTF, BOR, SIBSN, and Always have been the most regular 90s songs on the setlists and every one of those has been dropped at some stage over the last few years.

Agree with the sentiment of your post though.

In which case though, any band who continues after they made it big is a nostalgia act.

No-one goes to see the Foo's because of Wasting Light, no matter how good it was. They go to hear Everlong and Learn To Fly.

Fair play to her; for my money, that tune is one of the best they've done on the last few albums and, along with a lot of other decent tunes I would have loved to see it get an airing live.

I am the same as you. We are all the same, even the most disillusioned people on this board still show a passion for it; which is an indication of just how far this band can burrow into your musical consciousness and despite the despair at what Jon continues to brand 'Bon Jovi' and kid himself is relevant, I still live in hope for something of substance... and maybe the odd dash from one side of the stage to the other, for old time's sake.

I think there is some sort of "curse" over WAN...since the begining it just wasn't meant to be...I think this will turn out as one of the biggest mistakes in their career