Originally Posted by Beaky (Post 1121387)

No, I got your point, I just don't agree... I went to see them because of songs from that album. I think Wasting Light is possibly their best work as a whole.

Comparing it to Crush is a non-starter for me. Commercially, Crush did very well but it was a one-man team. It's My Life was a perfect storm moment for the band and the last time they were relevant. The rest of the album, bar the lyrics to Just Older, tails off into a Jon solo album and gave me my first glimpse at how horribly weak and bland this band could be.

I did not go to see Bon Jovi for any of the songs from Crush. However, Bon Jovi were still the best live band in the world for me in 2000, so I could even put up with the over indulgence of I Got The Girl and the general anaesthetic that was Two Story Town for the sake of seeing them get an entire stadium bouncing along like a small bar on a Friday night...

Originally Posted by semigoodlookin (Post 1121385)

I hate that everybody is speaking as fact. We take a line from an interview, sometimes just a few words and formulate a whole story from it and think we know the personal lives of these people.

I would suggest that not one theory put out here regarding how these guys operate behind the scenes is true. Jon puts himself out there to be the target no doubt, but perhaps he does that on purpose. Everyone here who is passing off statements like Richie is unhappy as if it is a fact must actually know the guy, so if you do ask him when he will be back please.

I am all for the speculation, if nothing else it passes the time, but in truth we are all talking utter shit.

Jon is a prick: BULLSHIT
Jon is a nice guy: BULLSHIT
Richie hates the new output: BULLSHIT
Richie loves the new output: BULLSHIT
The band has no say: BULLSHIT
The band is hugely involved: BULLSHIT
Jon said something that suggests...: BULLSHIT
The band not saying something suggests......: BULLSHIT

It is all bullshit because none of us know. The only thing I will guess is that the band will be together in the next few years, they will release another album, and will tour again.

And in terms of the band being in decline, they have been for years, but only to us. We are a very select demo of the Bon Jovi audience; one that picks over every detail. I am not fond of anything post Bounce at all but there are certainly plenty of people who are, as much as can be expected from the band's current position in the music industry. They are not One Direction, the flavour of the month, but neither are they washed up has been's like their former peers.

We think they are here because we like to think we know everything. We can see that the songs are not as good because we have different reference points. I go to a lot of rock concerts and have been to loads over the years, and no rock, heavy metal, thrash, or other rock genre band has such a mix of age and type of fans. Bon Jovi does something right in this modern era whether we like it or not, personally I would prefer they did it with music I really enjoyed, but the truth is they have been doing it with music other people have enjoyed. Perhaps for many of us Bon Jovi is dead, but for millions of others it most certainly isn't.

Sure the album tanked but I would think even the stunning These Days would have sold similar if released today. It is simply the climate except for a few acts.

Edit: I want to clarify that What About Now is terrible in my opinion, but that is not the reason it didn't sell well out the gates, although it is the reason it will have no staying power.

Originally Posted by crashed (Post 1121389)

I only used Crush as a reference as they were released at similar points in the band's careers - for what it's worth I think Crush is a really good album - not their best for sure and with some weak songs at the end.

This is my thing with this band, on their day they really are still the best live band in the world - but Richie has been out of sorts for a few years, and then this tour it seemed like he's back in the groove but Jon wasn't at his full potential, and then Richie vanishes - it would just be nice to have them all back to top form.

Originally Posted by Beaky (Post 1121390)

Of course it's speculation. If you don't want rolling comment, read a frikkin' newspaper...

If you were trying to add a post to a discussion thread, you succeeded. If you were trying to add something to the discussion, you failed.

Originally Posted by Beaky (Post 1121391)

Agree with that, 100%.

I said before the BBC show, if Jon comes out and sells these songs, it could make the difference but he just hasn't.

As we discussed in reference to BPL and other recent songs; they will only become part of the fabric of this band if they get a good airing live. When I started watching this band, I'd Die For You was a live staple... not a favourite but Jon sold it live. Then came Sleep When I'm Dead etc... yes, these songs have been in the set for too long... which is why, I've got to be honest, I don't mind hearing WGIGO when I am at a show because it sounds like a Bon Jovi song and it's played with conviction.

Originally Posted by semigoodlookin (Post 1121392)

I think you quoted the wrong poster here, it was someone else saying they didn't want rolling comment. If you take a quick look I did not.

However, it is speculation glad you could agree and are on my side with this.

I don't think the speculation is pointless, I think the people on here speaking in terms of fact are pointless. It you have not then you have a point, but if you have then your points have made no point and become pointless. Sure the point is based of something that happened, but usually it veers from having a point into being pointless. Do you get my point?

Originally Posted by RonJovi (Post 1121394)

Wow...that last paragraph must have the world record for usage of the word 'point' or a variation of it. I count 10 but I'm not usually good at these sorts of competitions.

Please tell me it was deliberate.

Originally Posted by semigoodlookin (Post 1121392)

I think you quoted the wrong poster here, it was someone else saying they didn't want rolling comment. If you take a quick look I did not.

However, it is speculation glad you could agree and are on my side with this.

I don't think the speculation is pointless, I think the people on here speaking in terms of fact are pointless. It you have not then you have a point, but if you have then your points have made no point and become pointless. Sure the point is based of something that happened, but usually it veers from having a point into being pointless. Do you get my point?

Originally Posted by Beaky (Post 1121391)

Agree with that, 100%.

I said before the BBC show, if Jon comes out and sells these songs, it could make the difference but he just hasn't.

As we discussed in reference to BPL and other recent songs; they will only become part of the fabric of this band if they get a good airing live. When I started watching this band, I'd Die For You was a live staple... not a favourite but Jon sold it live. Then came Sleep When I'm Dead etc... yes, these songs have been in the set for too long... which is why, I've got to be honest, I don't mind hearing WGIGO when I am at a show because it sounds like a Bon Jovi song and it's played with conviction.

Originally Posted by crashed (Post 1121399)

Odd that you say that when you mentioned I Got The Girl earlier - never liked it - then they played it at Hyde Park 03 and it just worked. Maybe part of the moment, maybe something else - but I really appreciated the song and have liked it ever since, and that happens with a lot of songs in their catalogue.

I'm disappointed they haven't at least kept Love's The Only Rule, great, great live song. Until Richie returns though, I doubt we'll see much variation.