[QUOTE=BJ?YesPlease;1146084][QUOTE=Slakk;1146082]I care as much about Richie's emotional state and well-being as he cares about mine.

[QUOTE=crashed;1146086][QUOTE=BJ?YesPlease;1146084]What a silly thing to say. Barely dignifies a response!

Jon doesn't have a Twitter account, but he did say he would be back during one of those very first shows without him. I'm under the impression things have been and are evolving, though, and that shows in how Jon's words about this changed significantly over these three months.
What seems more or less apparent from all the interviews with all of the band members is that the ball should be ultimately in Richie's court.

[QUOTE=BJ?YesPlease;1146087][QUOTE=crashed;1146086]Why is it silly? You're asking me to care about someone that I don't know personally, expecting me to give them some benefit of the doubt just because he's Richie Sambora? He's not my friend, or relative. And he really won't give a shit if I'm in an emotional state or having personal issues, so why should I give him that same consideration?

Like you said I'm a consumer and it's all about the music - that's what interests me and the only thing that matters to me is if the enjoyment of said music continues. Richie not being on tour ****ed that up somewhat. Is that selfish? Yes, absolutely, but that's what my emotional investment is - I'm not going to hold either Jon, Richie, Dave, Tico or Hugh on some sort of pedestal because of who they are.

The quotes are going crazy of late, showing all the wrong names. Hey ho.

I want to take a moment to just say that Jessy, I find your comments, along with Jackie's, to generally be the most clear-headed and reasoned in the group.

I remember a similar comment from you, so I'll take a moment as well this time to say I'm glad you appreciate my posts.

And, by the way, I can see where you're coming from with yours. But we can't expect everybody to have the same kind of patience and/or emotional attachment to this band and its members. I agree with you that we should wait before jumping to conclusions. And it hurts to see all the name-calling and rushed judgement. But at the same time I can't blame those who, RESPECTFULLY and with a clear head, decided enough is enough for them. I think some of these people are aware they don't know the full story, but somehow they think they know enough. And I understand that because, even though I'm trying my best to just patiently wait, I share the same level of frustration after 3 freakin' months. At the end of the day, if a good explanation for this is given, I'm pretty sure they will all take back their words. In the meantime, though, we're being given little to no explanation and I'm not sure we can really be expected to just stay quiet and wait diligently. People will get worked up. A few will keep their cool or desperately try to, but that's about it.

This might sound stretched, so just take it as a little silly comparison that, I hope, can still convey the idea. I think it's kinda like finding your partner in someone else's arms. They'll start off saying it's not what it seems and they can explain, but between when you walk in on them and when they're done finding the words and speaking them out loud, you've already slammed the door behind you or started throwing things at them. The next day you might be willing to listen, but in the heat and uncertainty of the moment, you just know you're hurt and/or mad and you don't really care about anything else.

I'm very "zen" and I'm just not able to form an opinion without having a pretty clear picture, but I understand this is not how it works for everybody. It's hard not having an opinion. I'm sure the band knows the shitstorm this is causing and how not spilling any beans totally fuels it. It shouldn't really take them by surprise, they're probably somehow "prepared" for this. You should take comfort in that, I do.

[QUOTE=crashed;1146090][QUOTE=BJ?YesPlease;1146087]It's not about putting them on a pedestal. You'er meant to be here because you're a fan. As a fan, surely your interest is in the music. If your interest is in the music, then surely the artist being interested in making the music is paramount.

Coming here and saying you don't give a shit about someone's mental state is a horrendously nasty and immature thing to do.

If you only do things in life to get the same back, good luck my friend...

Bang on the money.

Totally agree!

I just want some good music.

The only thing most people are demanding is resolution of the current crisis. To me, the best outcome is for Richie to re-join the band, because at this moment there is literally nothing concrete to suggest his absence has anything to do with lack of passion, or his mental well-being, blah blah blah. If it turns out it is, fair enough- good luck Mr Sambora, go do your own thing. Until then, I want him back where he belongs. Whatever future albums come out, my preference will be for a Bon Jovi album with Richie. There is nothing to convince me otherwise at present. The passion is something I'll judge when I hear said album.

I don't understand why you're so determined to push your "give him the benefit of doubt" opinion on people. To use your own go-to phrase, you don't know shit either- your opinion is no more valid than that of those who are angry at Richie, of those who want him back and those who don't, or those who think its a bust-up rather than happiness- so why do you feel the need to constantly come on berating people who have taken a different stance to your own? If someone's pissed off at his not being there, you've got nothing to say they're wrong to be pissed off. Why not leave the 'morality police' act until we do know something?

[QUOTE=BJ?YesPlease;1146094][QUOTE=crashed;1146090]I don't actually most people who know me would say I'm one of the nicest guys you could meet. There's absolutely nothing to suggest Richie has blown off rhe tour for anything other than a personal whim, and I am a fan of the music of Bon Jovi (not Richie as a solo artist) and as I said previously, him not being there messed with the music.

Calling me nasty and immature is not only way off the mark it's also missing the point or choosing not to acknowledge it, there's no proof that Richie is other than absolutely fine.

But resolution of the "crisis" (a tad overly-dramatic, don't you think? But I know what you mean) just might not be do-able right now. Whatever the reasons that he's not there, maybe they can't just be solved anytime soon.
You say the absence is nothing to do with happiness etc - what do you think it's to do with? (I don't know, obviously, I'm just genuinely intrigued what you think it could be).

I agree that my preference too would be a BJ album with Richie. Absolutely!

I don't know shit, you're right.
The whole morality police point you raise is exactly what you said - why don't we leave all the drama, blame and hatred until we know more?
I can understand people being pissed off. I truly can. I was massively disappointed, annoyed and then angry for answers at the beginning. But the amount of time that's passed clearly would indicate it's some sort of big issue, or at least an issue that's important enough in the mind of whoever is key to making the decision.

Surely you must see that by jumping the gun and getting on Richie/Jon/whoever's back before we know anything is a tad unfair?

I'm not taking any sides here. I'm not defending Richie, or Jon. But I'm also not about to attack the guys who've made the most important and influential music I've listened to.

It also seems some folky are making themselves (and others) more worked up by getting angry about it. It's not helping, and it's not going to bring Richie back.

But as Jessy said, everyone deals with things differently.

And Crashed - man, I'm sure you are a good guy. This thread is awful for winding people up the wrong way.
But as I said, I'm not trying to defend anyone - if it turns out this is all over nothing, then give whoever both barrels.

You say "There's absolutely nothing to suggest Richie has blown off rhe tour for anything other than a personal whim" - so what do you think it's down to? Do you really think he'd just ditch a tour after 30 years on a whim?

I honestly don't know, that's what's frustrating - when all this started I thought it had to be serious - family, his health or as we discussed, his mental state - or that he just had a commitment to look after Ava.

But as time has gone on Richie hasn't done himself any favours - if it was any of the above we'd all have given a pass - but instead we've seen pictures of new cars, holidays with his daughter, shoots for his fashion line all whilst he should be on stage with the band who are absolutely working their asses off right now but no matter how hard they try the absence of Richie will affect the music and the atmosphere for us long term fans, there's no way it can't.

The only thing that still makes sense to me is looking after Ava, and I'd have no problem with him doing that, but at least he could have said sorry to the fans and not once has he.

Dude, I'm with you and hope there's a genuine reason behind it all.

But I don't think the things he does while not with BJ should be an issue - the guy has to do something with his time. Providing he didn't bail TO DO the fashion stuff etc, then I think there's not much to judge on.

But you're right - a sorry would've been nice.
However (you knew it was coming, didn't you?! LOL) - playing devil's advocate once again. Having worked in a media/legal capacity....sometimes you have to make sure you don't say sorry as it can legally imply responsibility.
And whether its his fault or not, he might have to be careful not to say that.
I know that's all a bit w@nky and sounds like shit, and in truth I find it unlikely, but just playing that Advocate.... ;)

No, no, no. I didn't say it wasn't happiness. I said there's nothing concrete to prove it. From what is out there, my gut is telling me its a mixture of two issues- Aftermath and Ava- but there is nothing definitive for me to hang my hat on. If it turns out to be about money, some whim, some totally ridiculous reason, I wouldn't be surprised.

My anger, as I've said before, is aimed at the handling, which in the face of nonsense tweeting and vague statements, I feel is becoming more and more justified. People have argued legalities and gagging orders- the tweets in particular seem to knock that on the head somewhat. Whatever his personal reasons turn out to be, anger at him for the handling of it is fairly legit.

I get your viewpoint. If I can summarise- these guys are still human beings who deserve their happiness and privacy? I wouldn't argue against that, but I do believe that with the position they're in, they have an added responsibility to their fans when in the middle of a commitment to them. His actions, for better or worse, are affecting his fans. No one expects him to appease every individual, but as an entity he should have addressed them properly by now. He could help himself and those fans by coming out and saying something coherent. How happy will he be if this carries on and he has no band or fans left?

What you're saying, about being patient, not judging etc: I'm not saying you're wrong to take that stance, I just think you're not giving enough credit to the guys on the other side. Constantly telling them to give Richie a break when in truth they've given him a break for long enough. Their patience is wearing thin though, and a certain level of anger is justified now.

It's quite creepy but interesting in a way how I constantly accidently come across very old and more recent interviews alike where somehow, someway the whole band-dynamic matter is addressed.

I've found this great Kerrang interview from 1986; "Slippery When Wet" had just been released. I like it so much that I'll probably end up posting the entire thing in the General section of this board, but there was a part that jumped at me and I thought it could be somewhat relevant to the topic at hand here, considering how one of the points we made (whether it has everything, little or nothing to do with Sambogate) is that Richie has been skipping an unknown amount of rehearsals for quite some time (plus the infamous Calgary show, when it all started) or also how another hit topic was Richie's involvement in both writing and demoing "What About Now", not to mention the whole CEO thing about Jon.


So anyway... In the article, the journalist was saying how positively impressed he was that David's input on "Slippery When Wet" seemed so much more significant compared to Bon Jovi's previous records. And then he quotes Jon:

"I'm really pleased that David has come through so well, because there was a point not so long ago when I had to threaten him with not playing on the LP at all! You see, Richie and I would spend ages in the rehearsal studio working on material and David would take the blasé attitude that, 'OK, I'm going home now'. His heart didn't seem to be into working as hard as us, which is why he only co-wrote one track on the new LP. So I just told him that unless he started to pull his weight I'd have to think about where he stood in this band. Fortunately, he took notice of what I said and pulled himself together magnificently.

People may find this strange, but I care about the musicians in this band. We've all worked together for so long that we're really good friends. In fact, we all live so close to each other that being in Bon Jovi is like being in a small community. And our attitudes are unchanged as well. For instance, I'm still a big music fan.[...]"

Long comments in long thead? I'm out. See you when Richie tweets something stupid again.

It may be a while, previously when he posted something stupid, he went silent for a few weeks before returning, so I think end of July is his likely twitter return :D

Can't we just make up a Richie tweet? Cos ya know some people will skip a few pages and think it's real. :D

How about:

Thnks for the bday wishes. Buy Aftermath of the Lowdown to bask in the glow of my soul.

Necessary spelling error included to make it more realistic. :lol:

Yeah he does. It's got the official tick next to it as well: https://mobile.twitter.com/JonBonJoviNJ

Not legit. That's a faked verification check for starters, and the feed itself is riddled with mistakes and inaccuracies. Beyond that, if it were real, the Bon Jovi account would be retweeting it and etc all the time.

Exactly. Also, Matt tweeted just the other day to say that account is fake.

We can probably find you something shiny to play with if that helps?

@therealsambora hey yooooouuuu guuuuyyyyzzzzz

see, i can actually imagine him tweeting something like that.

Awesome . . . . .

LOL Throw in a fashion line reference and daughter reference and I'd almost believe it. :D

I really hope you're joking, but somehow I don't think you are.....

Please, I need something to do during my "prepare for finals" ten minutes break.

Great times...

I hope see this again.

Me, too. One of my favorite vids. :)

How about :
@therealsambora Life amazing, best trip to Europe EVER! Aftermath re-released in Sept with 1 extra song I wrote called 'I Love Clothes' #Freedom

I did not miss Richie one bit at Chicago.

Well that's sad.
And if you're a fan of the band somehow I don't believe you.
I understand enjoying the show without him but not missing him at all?

@TheRealSambora: I wanna thank everyone for your gracious birthday wishes. Wrapping up my vacation with my beautiful daughter. Hope to see you soon.

Nothing particularly exciting, but he's still tweeting!

It was United's first Bon Jovi show, so you can't miss what you've never seen, and Phil certainly carries a show well enough that it's only the subtle differences you notice if you've seen them enough times.

I know what you mean by subtle, but it somehow makes it seem that those differences aren't important. Those subtle differences are what make Bon Jovi shows so special, and what made the show with Phil I saw to be utterly average.

I Could not enter on Jovitalk, but now I'm here again...for your love...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awqJBucWvZI#t=0m19s

:p

I certainly did! It was a good show, Phil X does a good job, but it is not Richie! I think Jon missed him too!

I do feel you....at Slane I noticed Richie's absence a lot more than I did at Hampden. But at Slane during Dry County that's where the solo needs to carry the show...at Hampden they didn't play any song (except Wanted) that requires that charisma, that experience and that phenomenal artistry.