Only in My Dreams ;)

songwriter...
but I don't think only in your dreams this will be a sticky thread lol

You've got to realise that not all songs will start with Jon and Richie sitting down and writing together from the get go. Obviously a lot of them will be started alone and then brought in where the other would add their input. Sometimes this might be a lot, sometimes a little. With the amount of songs they have written together there is bound to be a mix of all of that, including some that Jon just changed a line here and Richie changed a chrord there.

For everyone that suggests that there are songs that Jon has a credit for without changing much, there is someone that suggets that Richie has never written a hit on his own, so therefore it says a lot about his songwritting, which is utter rubbish.

For me, what does say a lot is that when Desmond Child, one of the greatest song writers of that era, chose to work with Richie on a couple of tracks when he did his solo album (Discipline) in the early 90s. The only other co-writes on that album were with Diane Warren and Burt Bacharach....Desmond isn't juts going to choose to work with an average song writter, when we could literally have picked anyone to help him out with the rockier tracks...

It should be fairly safe to assume everyone realises not all songs start with Jon and Richie sitting down together. Jon himself has said Richie has brought songs, but that's not the point. Overplaying Richie's role is the point, more specifically to a higher level than all facts suggest. It's nothing more than "he did because I say so."

Sure, it may have sometimes been a little and sometimes been a lot in the writing process. However, suggesting the little is a word/line or a chord just does not make sense to me. That is especially amusing because there is no way Jon is giving Richie a songwriting credit for changing a chord.

I agree, I think Richie has played his part in enough monster hits for his capabilities not to be questioned just because he has never solo wrote a bona fide hit. Not least because it is not him or even the quality of the song that decides if it becomes a hit or not. I mean, if he had written Mr. Blobby on his own, would that mean he is an ace songwriter?

But the same can be said about downplaying his role, which a lot of people do....

Sometimes changing one chord can change a song dramatically. I'm not talking about a single note. Changing the first Chord of a chorus from C to Em would change the dynamics of the song drastically. Of course there would be a song writing credit there....

The same way that changing a line can change the whole meaning of a verse....

Song writing credits can also be split into percentages, although many band's don't bother with this as it's hard to determine and can cause friction....I don't think that that information is often made public though...

I've made that argument a few times. I've also argued that Richie may be the primary songwriter on some of their songs while Jon is the primary on others, and some were probably closer to 50/50. It wouldn't surprise me if there are songs written by one of them where minor changes resulted in both having credits. IIRC, ITA was supposedly written by Jon and David; but at an opportune moment Richie tossed out the title of a song he was working on, so he has a writing credit for it. It's not hard for me to believe that the same thing could have happened in reverse.

I haven't seen many people who think Richie is "the brains, heart and creative force behind Bon Jovi" or who try to paint him as such. What I have seen is people reacting to those who believe Jon IS Bon Jovi and that he would have enjoyed the same level of success by himself (or with any 4 guys he picked up off the street), and imply that if it weren't for Jon, Richie would be flipping burgers at McDonald's. Although Richie is usually their bone of contention, that insults not only him, but extends to Tico, Dave, Alec, and Hugh, imo, because it took all of them to make the band what it is. But when someone starts crediting Richie for anything, it's automatically assumed that he or she is trying to steal credit from Jon, or say that Jon's contributions meant nothing, or exaggerate Richie's importance to the band. So I guess it all depends on your POV.

If you're referring to my reply to Butters, I was responding to his WTF reaction, as if Richie is delusional to talk about hit songs "that you write by yourself..." My point was that perhaps some of their hits did start life as a song Richie wrote by himself and brought into sessions with Jon - not to say Jon didn't have anything to do with them or just stuck his name on them. But just because they were later tweaked, or totally reworked, by him and Jon (and Desmond or whomever) that wouldn't negate the feeling of pride and ownership that Richie might feel for them. It's just another version of the on-going "I wrote/I co-wrote" debate.

LOVE Only Lonely, Love lies, Borderline, Breakout (written by John Bongiovi and David Bryan only)
just sayin’

Jackie is so defensive when it comes to Richie.

Have Jackie and Rosa ever battled it out? That would be something to see lol.

if that's the case I'm going to support JackieBlue -_-

Well, y'know, it's like the man said: "You gotta stand up for what you believe."

I believe that there are at least 3 sides to every story: yours, mine, and the fly on the wall's; and we haven't heard from the fly yet. Not that it matters a whole helluva lot, because I also believe that life's too short to hold grudges, even if it turns out that I don't like what the fly has to say. ;)

Thanks, Ma'am! But I don't think it will come to that. It doesn't seem to me that Rosa's always looking for flaws in someone, just because he disappointed her 5-1/2 years ago; and I like Jon, even if I don't think sun rises and sets in his shoes. So until Rosa tells me that I'm not a fan unless I agree with everything Jon does, or that I have no business being here, there's really nothing for us to battle out.:)