Richie has to have a large wound, that's for sure.
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Haha, there are three new pages of bitching over a comment Richie made two years ago.
At least Richie is talking about his departure. Jon would keep us in the dark forever if it meant his character was brought into question. Bounce was rubbish. Hopefully someday he will talk about all the albums and what he honestly thinks of them. It seems a lot of people here are genuinely hurt that Richie isn't this perfect role model guitar playing genius that they grew up imagining he was, it's very tedious reading. |
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Surely if he was that determined to do his own thing he wouldn't have even done the album. He should have stood up for himself at that point not finally grow balls part way through a tour! |
Aloha !
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Richie's been playing intoxicated for a long, long time. People seem to think he was sober most of the time before 2005, but it's just not true. He just never took too much to be able to play anymore, which is clearly what he's doing now. It's either alcohol, or he's off his tits because of (prescription) drugs. Another thing the womanizer in me fails to understand though is this; If I were to play in a band with a girl I'd want to impress, I'd work very, very hard on getting the songs right and not look like a fool. I remember having written a song for a girl and then playing it for her in the TV room, feeling like a fool when I messed up. I swore that'd never happen again, yet Richie's doing it night after night. I don't get it. Salaam Aleikum, Sebastiaan |
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P.S.: If I don't make much sense, it's because this point is so silly, it properly makes me angry and I lose my ability to properly articulate my points. Apologies. As about the womaniser in you, I can't comment on that. I'm completely dysfunctional in that regard. For the last two years I've been like Jon Bon Bon in that Sex and the City episode he's in. Once I 'scored', I couldn't care less what she thinks about me or my guitar or anything else I do etc etc |
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Of course, you are entitled to your hilarious response on the last pages, which I agree with for the most part. I especially agree with Undiscovered Soul, a stable Richie wrote what to me always came across like a love letter to his wife (most the album I mean). |
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Another possibility is that after he agreed to go ahead with the tour, they continued to add dates, as has happened with Jovi tours in the past, and extended the tour beyond the dates he agreed to. Any number of things could have happened. But at least we know now that it was never as simple as "Richie should have said that he didn't want to tour (or do a new album/tour) before the tour/album ever started." Apparently the decision he faced wasn't whether he wanted to tour or not, but whether he wanted to stay in Bon Jovi or not. His statement in this article also leads me to believe that when he said that Mick wouldn't tour without Keith he wasn't referring, as some have suggested, to the idea that Jon should have stopped the tour when Richie walked away; but rather that Mick, in Jon's shoes, wouldn't have said (before the tour was arranged), "The band is going on tour with you or without you. You're either a part of that band or you're not." |
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I mean, if you're Bon Jovi and you have indeed forced Richie out of the band, but still have plans to continue without him, wouldn't it make sense to officially announce he's left (and maybe replace him with Phil or just make a "vacant" spot like Alec). I think that would've hurt that short-term, but would've sent a stronger message long-term, if that indeed was the plan. |
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I wasn't following the band when Alec and Bon Jovi parted company (regardless of how or why it happened) but the more I read about that situation in old articles/interviews the more it bears a striking resemblance to what is happening now with Richie. Jon uses almost identical phrases in some cases. |
Shocking! Something Richie said in an interview over a year later conveniently sheds a whole new light on the situation and (gasp!) it makes Richie come out smelling like roses (if you twist and contort it to fit your theory of when it all actually went down, IF it all actually went down at all). This is what? The 4th, 5th, maybe 6th reason/excuse he has given? Please, next week it will be something else.
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But I'm not sure what you think was twisted and contorted? |
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I wasn't picking on Jon or saying he's evil. I was just pointing out that they're both getting in their digs just like they did while the tour was still going on. And it's okay that he's not perfect. Really, the world won't end because the man's human. Jon doesn't need a writer at every news outlet to pick up stories. That what he pays a PR staff for. And if you think Jon doesn't have a highly paid and very competent staff who does exactly that kind of thing and then feeds it to the Forbes, the Billboards, and other "random" outlets, you're more naive that I thought you were. These weren't stories about a #1 BWC tour. They were stories about the other successful artists from this year and howJovi had fallen from 7th to 13th. Pretty sure ABC didn't jump all over that as a top news story without a nudge from somebody. The BWC tour ended over 6 months ago. The only people who are still talking about it are deranged fans like us. Nobody else gives a rip. Check out the timing on these little 'non-news' news blurbs and compare them to what's going on with Richie at the time. There's a pattern. And then, maybe I'm wrong. It's been known to happen. ;) At any rate, this thread isn't about "Evil Richie vs St. Jon" or "Why is Jon such a jerk when Richie's such a good guy?" Somebody just said they didn't like the way Richie digs at Jon (and I don't either, btw) and all I was saying is he's not the only one who's doing it. Jon, as always, is more subtle when he sticks the knife in. But you can bet that Richie's getting his message, too. |
Sorry, Jackie, but I really think you're smoking something on this latest "belief" you have about Jon. You seem to want to believe the absolute worst about him in every situation, so I guess your latest "theory" shouldn't surprise anyone.
Whatever. Smoke another one. LOL |
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The articles regarding the untimely accolades he (and/or the band) is receiving lately seem to me to accomplish both of those missions at the same time. The accompanying articles consistently point out that the BWC tour was successful and it was successful without Sambora. As I said to Becky, this isn't breaking news for anyone. None of the outlets presenting the information would be seeking out newsbytes about a tour that ended six months ago (and bringing up an irregularity that occurred almost a year and a half ago) without prompting from someone.And tbe most likely canidate for "someone" in this case would Mr. Sunshine or someone on his staff. And yes, I also realize that it's my theory bumping up against actual words Richie is saying - although in this particular case, he didn't actually say anything about Jon, did he? And while I admit that it's reasonable to surmise that he may have been referring to Jon, since he DIDN'T actually SAY that was who he meant, doesn't that make the comparison rather theoretical on both sides? But then I guess it's okay to theorize about Richie, since no one would DREAM of assuming the worst about him, right? :rolleyes: |
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time will heal the wounds as long as both sides stop making new bitter statements...there are many similarities with the break after new jersey, at this moment they both focus on the negatives...they ve been together for so long that its inevitable they will meet again
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I'm sick of all this shit to be honest... Sat here listening to inside out and I really want to see my band touring again all as one.
It's the fans that suffer through all this, makes my year when I go to a jovi gig and I'm gutted that there is no indication of them ever getting back together not to mention another tour. I know they can't tour every year but would be nice to hear something coming out from the band that it's not all over and we will see you all again etc. |
The problem, Jackie, is that you're making shit up when it comes to the things you say Jon has said or done. Jon has said ONE thing that was objectionable since this started and that was that Edge comment. Richie has been taking digs at Jon and the band for weeks. I'm not keeping track, but saying he hates Runaway and taking a dig at the Bounce album come to mind. Also, he keeps saying, "I wrote the songs," instead of "We." Compare that to Jon having some class and thanking Richie in his Songwriter's Icon Award speech recently. He said he wrote some hits alone, but he also acknowledged that he writes in collaboration with other great writers that "make going to work fun." Richie, on the other hand, is acting like he's the mastermind behind Bon Jovi's success. Classless. Petty. Childish.
In all your posts, Jon is the villain and Richie is the victim. That's why several of us question your latest theory that Jon is personally feeding the press digs at Richie. Perhaps, though, if you want to continue to spew your theories at us, you should take it to the No Richie on this leg of the tour thread so people can get back to talking about Dublin in this thread. |
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The BWC tour, whatever its faults, was the biggest tour of 2013. That in itself attracts publicity and column inches. Naturally Richie leaving will always be associated with the tour. Jon has nothing to do with those two facts being written about together. |
My mom texted me this morning saying she heard on the radio that Jon and Richie "made up" and that they're open to touring together in the future.
Can anyone confirm? I haven't kept up with this drama in months. |
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Always been a Jon fan more than a Richie fan (not that I have ever disliked Richie) but Jon actually surprised me with how well he dealt with the situation. He seemed fed up at times, sure. I would be! But the way he answered some questions and in all honesty, never really had a go at Richie was great on his behalf.
Never said he wrote anything on his own at the shows, always praised the fans for being patient and is still thanking Richie in speeches. Don't think Richie would thank Jon if he got an award in all honesty. I genuinely don't. |
yo momma taking the piss :cool:
Though maybe some hope? Random article from yesterday; Quote:
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The 'personal reasons... ask him' thing was something that suited Jon down to the ground. I think we can safely say, from the sudden explosion of music and opinion from Richie at the point that he travelled to Australia last year, that whilst under contract, he was was unable to discuss things at length with the press or perform whilst under a contract to Bon Jovi. Now, the stock response to this from anyone who just loves to fellate Mr Bon Jovi is simply 'You don't know that, it's speculation'. Absolutely it is. But all that joy everyone took in bashing the sh*t out of Richie for going through intermediaries to crappy press outlets... and now he's a million miles away from that - anyone who has any idea how the press/media works will know how detailed these contracts can be and that includes being able to discuss things with mainstream media. Jon spent months being lambasted by people did he? I never witnessed anything that came close to the relentless 'drugged-up, drunk, slurring, fat, bloated waste of space, jamming with fabric, Phil is ten times the guitarist you are' stuff that was thrown at Richie on a minute-by-minute basis on here and everywhere else. Including in the press. Jon, stood back and let it happen. So I can understand why RS is pissed. Can you imagine your parents/friends/record company/manager reading that and it NOT being true? Both of them are able to act like total cocks. If Jon cared about the state of his voice half as much as he cared about the state of his abs, we'd still have a half decent lead singer to listen to. The tour was rushed; Richie was told 'play or leave' and he made the wrong decision - they both did. Some people have just turned it into an opportunity to spend a year and a half bashing the crap out of someone who made a mistake and should have stood his ground. But it's over and for those still going on and on and on and on and on about it... seems to me you couldn't have liked the guy very much in the first place and were waiting for an opportunity to slate him... so what's your problem? If Jackie had been defending Jon, no one would have accused her of hijacking a thread... |
Richie-Glasgow- wrecked!
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Thanks, Beaky. I'm pretty sure that if that were the case I wouldn't have been told that I "make shit up" either. Of course that's just another of my theories... :rolleyes: |
Aloha !
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Salaam Aleikum, Sebastiaan |
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I don’t make shit up. We may see things differently but “making shit up” implies lying. I don’t lie and I resent the implication. I don’t demonize Jon or victimize Richie. I checked my posts to see if I had been more critical than I thought and in 234 posts, there were 10. Less than 5% may be negative about Jon and 3 were in this discussion. 3 more were together in a similar discussion re spinning the press. One replied to your opinion that Jon had too much class to take Richie to court and I thought he’d sue Richie if he had a case. 2 said Jon HAD stated publicly that Richie would sing songs from Aftermath on tour. But I think the problem for you started with my 1st post where I suggested that Jon may be part of the reason Richie walked because IMO he was goading Richie in Calgary with, “we’re sorry he’s not here for you” and that there was a veiled threat in the “he won’t be performing anywhere”, implying IMO that Richie might be restricted from performing if it not with Bon Jovi. I posted 8 positive comments about Jon, including 3 where I defended him against unfair comments. (BTW, when’s the last time you defended or complimented Richie?) I made 3 posts criticizing Richie and 24 where I argued that people were judging prematurely or defended him against (mis)interpretation of his statements. For example, why is the fact that he wouldn’t want to play Runaway or his comments about Bounce considered a dig at THE BAND? How is the fact that he has more freedom or more control over his schedule as a solo artist a dig at Jon? And why weren’t such statements considered digs when he said the same things in other interviews over the years? The rest of my posts were neutral or unrelated comments. Quote:
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Richie has said, “I’m the songwriter”, yes. But within context it’s clear that he’s not taking credit from Jon any more than Jon was taking credit from him the umpteen million times he said, “I wrote…” either. Richie is explaining why it’s not just the time on tour that made his work a continuous cycle, but that he does a lot more than just record and tour. People don’t take that into consideration when they ask, “Why don’t David and Teek feel this way?” Jon and Richie are the ones who write, demo, select, mix, master, produce, and promote. It’s also been a response to questions about him doing Jovi songs in his shows to clarify that they’re his songs, too. Not just that he “owns” them as much as Jon; but that they mean something to him just like his solo songs do, so why wouldn’t he want to sing them? Quote:
All that said, would you now like for me to do a similar analysis on comments you’ve posted about Richie? And not just since he left the tour either! In reading the archives, I’ve noticed that Richie’s one of your go-to defenses against things said about Jon and when people say something good about Richie, you just have to post something to negate it or to show where Jon has done something just as good or better. The way I see it, Becky, "the problem" is your lack of perspective when it comes to Jon. It’s not that I cast Jon as villain and Richie as victim. It’s that somewhere inside yourself you know Jon’s not perfect and maybe you can admit to yourself there – in your own little corner, in your own little room – but it galls your ass to a fare-thee-well if someone says it “out loud” because you’re afraid that somewhere Richie might come off looking just a little bit better than Jon and you just can’t stand it. |
In my opinion, whenever Jon called to Phil X as brother Phil, was a blow to Richie, I felt that.
We can discuss and analyze everything, but at the end of the day, we all know that this band needed a long break, and rescan everything you have done with a more critical eye. Richie needed to do his solo stuff, and for that you need more time. A time in that Jon seemed interfere. I think the future can be promising with the return of Sambora to the band. Quote:
Richie Sambora - Bridge Over Troubled Water - O2 Glasgow |
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For the record, Richie hasn't said that he wrote the songs "on his own" either. And before you "genuinely" go too far down that last road, you might want to check this out at about the 2:20 mark: Just sayin'... |
Jackie, I don't really care enough about this to go back and reread your posts or my posts (once was enough) so I'm not going to match you with a meta-analysis. My time is too valuable for that. The general attitude that comes across from your posts is Jon is at fault and Richie is just responding to whatever big bad Jon did to him. Maybe in your heart of hearts you don't mean to come across that way, but you do.
Also, you can't say you don't make things up because I saw a post from you not too long ago where you made up a quote that you think may be something like what Jon said and you put it in quotation marks. But it was all based on your THEORY of what Jon said because Richie said he was given an ultimatum. It wasn't that long ago so you can probably remember it. But, yes, you did make it up. None of us know what was said between Jon and Richie. And your whole notion that Jon is feeding the press digs at Richie is hardly based on cold, hard facts. It's just another theory. And I stand by the way Richie has been saying, "I write the songs" lately comes across like he wants to be seen as the mastermind of the band. That's my interpretation, which like your theories is <i>not necessarily the way it is</i>, but how it comes across to me. Richie's comments about Runaway and Bounce are insulting to Jon (Runaway) and the band (Bounce) because he's insulting their hard work. How would you take it Jon said someone else did "The Answer" and did it better than Richie did just because it has the same title? I know that's a bad example because I can't think of another song with that title, but Richie said someone else did "Runaway" and did it better than Jon because there's an old song with that title. That's pretty low. And if Jon had said it, you would be all over it. If it weren't for Runaway, Bon Jovi wouldn't have gotten a record deal and where would Richie be right now? Probably not in the position to bite the hand that feeds him. No one has to tell me Jon's not perfect. But he's also not the villain he's been made out to be through the years on this board either. If you'd been around here for the last decade+, you would know that Jon has been made out to be everything but the devil himself. SOMEONE has to defend him. Jon has had very few champions on this website through the years. The fact is, the most I've ever seen positive comments directed toward Jon has come in the last year since Richie left. So if, like me, you actually LIKE and RESPECT Jon, you've learned to be on the defensive. I can't even begin to tell you how many fans of Jon have just given up and left because of the negativity. Yes, they do go to Backstage where it's actually okay to like Jon. So then they're called "Backstagers" around here in a demeaning tone. Try being a fan of Jon on Dry County. It's no easy existence. That's why I defend him, not because I think he's perfect. And, for the record, before Richie started bailing on tours and running his mouth like he has been lately, I didn't have any problem with HIM. Sure, I don't like his singing voice. I never have and I never will. I don't apologize for that. The first time I heard him singing, I didn't know it was him and my reaction was, "What is this SHIT?" It was my honest reaction. I don't like my singing voice either. I don't like the minister of music at my church's singing voice. I'm entitled to have my own taste in singers. But I never had problem with him as a human being. I just had a problem with his fans who always acted like he was God and Jon was someone to be scorned. And, girl, that goes back to the days of pen-pals before I ever even knew the internet existed. There's always been a divide between Richie Fans and Jon Fans and there always will be. Gah, this post is too freaking long. I wouldn't even bother reading it if it were me. LOL |
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