Richie has to have a large wound, that's for sure.

All great points. I really think his "famous face" line is about Heather and people thinking he's talking about Jon is a stretch. The line was written prior to the debacle and he's even said the song is about his divorce.

That's all you can come up with? And you are the one talking about 'adult children'. Fair enough, no need to bother much.

Haha, there are three new pages of bitching over a comment Richie made two years ago.

At least Richie is talking about his departure. Jon would keep us in the dark forever if it meant his character was brought into question. Bounce was rubbish. Hopefully someday he will talk about all the albums and what he honestly thinks of them.

It seems a lot of people here are genuinely hurt that Richie isn't this perfect role model guitar playing genius that they grew up imagining he was, it's very tedious reading.

This still doesn't add up because he recorded the album and then started the tour.
Surely if he was that determined to do his own thing he wouldn't have even done the album. He should have stood up for himself at that point not finally grow balls part way through a tour!

Aloha !

He is alive, yeah, but kicking ass? He didn't play a single song without ****ing up somewhere! He didn't even get the chords right to Prayer! Do yourself a favor and shut up until you're actually capable of detecting the mistakes and sloppiness yourself, as opposed to judging others for pointing out things you obviously didn't hear or see yourself.

Although I kind of agree with your rant about deeming what's normal or not or what kind of relationship he should have, I don't really think that's the issue here. Most great music that was made while said artists were off their socks, were also done by artists who'd eventually lose it because the drugs/alcohol gained control over their creative output. Some died, but for the ones who lived, it'd eventually stop. Just look at Aerosmith; 4 great albums, then there was too much drugs followed by 10 years of pointless album releases. The same goes for Clapton, who's filled a decade with average albums and poor concerts.

Richie's been playing intoxicated for a long, long time. People seem to think he was sober most of the time before 2005, but it's just not true. He just never took too much to be able to play anymore, which is clearly what he's doing now. It's either alcohol, or he's off his tits because of (prescription) drugs.

Another thing the womanizer in me fails to understand though is this; If I were to play in a band with a girl I'd want to impress, I'd work very, very hard on getting the songs right and not look like a fool. I remember having written a song for a girl and then playing it for her in the TV room, feeling like a fool when I messed up. I swore that'd never happen again, yet Richie's doing it night after night. I don't get it.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

I think Richie's too old school of a macho to actually realize Ori might notice him ****ing up all the time. To him it's probably the much bigger proof of him being alpha as **** that he gets to do whatever he wants and get away with it, because that shows that he's important.

What do you mean by you don't think that's the issue? To make it clear - my issue is that Richie's sloppy playing is one thing that is obvious, that we can discuss. The choices he makes in his personal life we can comment on, but obnoxious judgement calls based on some set of values that somebody takes for granted because they've been engraved in their brains since they were kids...well...those make me go on a rant. A 'healthy' relationship does not make a better player just like a ****ed up relationship does not necessarily lead to more creative writing. As you point out, Richie's 'abuse' problems have been long documented. Yet you watch him high as a mother****in' kite in some of those 1989 gigs, looking like a psychopath, but kicking' the shit out of that guitar. You see him be a human wreck at the peak of his alcohol abuse (unplugged probably). Yet in between his playing has been up and down. Even his Australian stint had some unbelievable performances. Now he is all shit. So whatever theory you may have about it - saying 'if only he was sober and had a proper stable relationship and wasn't such an adult child' is just BOLLOCKS. The same Richie gave us the genius of Stranger in This Town, of Keep The Faith...Dry County...These Days...you name it. The same adult child Richie gives us this. To be fair - Undiscovered Soul is my least favourite of all band related solo records, and that was written when he was in a perfectly stable relationship. In fact, all throughout his marriage his playing was dull and his tone deteriorated. Yet somehow some people think him dating Orianthi negatively affects his playing. Just WTF?!

P.S.: If I don't make much sense, it's because this point is so silly, it properly makes me angry and I lose my ability to properly articulate my points. Apologies.

As about the womaniser in you, I can't comment on that. I'm completely dysfunctional in that regard. For the last two years I've been like Jon Bon Bon in that Sex and the City episode he's in. Once I 'scored', I couldn't care less what she thinks about me or my guitar or anything else I do etc etc

I am not one for discussing Richie's personal life because I simply don't care about it. However, we debate things here that are not based on fact but interpretation. Even something that I see as fact (Richie's awful playing) is questioned by someone with a different interpretation. We all go off what we see, so whoever is childish enough to chat about his marriage and personal life is entitiled to do so, no matter their reason.

Of course, you are entitled to your hilarious response on the last pages, which I agree with for the most part.

I especially agree with Undiscovered Soul, a stable Richie wrote what to me always came across like a love letter to his wife (most the album I mean).

It sounds to me like the choice that was presented to him was to tour or leave the band that he had committed nearly all his adult life to. I think that would be a difficult choice for anyone to make. Maybe he thought at the time that agreeing to the tour was preferable to losing his place in the band, and that he would be able to see it through to the finish. But since life has a way of taking some curious turns, something could have happened at home or with the band after the tour was started that made leaving when he did his only option, whether it meant forfeiting his place in the band or not.

Another possibility is that after he agreed to go ahead with the tour, they continued to add dates, as has happened with Jovi tours in the past, and extended the tour beyond the dates he agreed to.

Any number of things could have happened. But at least we know now that it was never as simple as "Richie should have said that he didn't want to tour (or do a new album/tour) before the tour/album ever started." Apparently the decision he faced wasn't whether he wanted to tour or not, but whether he wanted to stay in Bon Jovi or not.

His statement in this article also leads me to believe that when he said that Mick wouldn't tour without Keith he wasn't referring, as some have suggested, to the idea that Jon should have stopped the tour when Richie walked away; but rather that Mick, in Jon's shoes, wouldn't have said (before the tour was arranged), "The band is going on tour with you or without you. You're either a part of that band or you're not."

Good points to make.

I see where you're comming from, but that still doesn't add up to me. Then why Richie hasn't officially left the band? If these were the choices, then he clearly left the band for good. Whereas know he's officially still a member, just on not "on tour".

I mean, if you're Bon Jovi and you have indeed forced Richie out of the band, but still have plans to continue without him, wouldn't it make sense to officially announce he's left (and maybe replace him with Phil or just make a "vacant" spot like Alec). I think that would've hurt that short-term, but would've sent a stronger message long-term, if that indeed was the plan.

My guess would be the legal/financial ramifications would dictate whether they actually make an official change in status for Richie. It may be a situation similar to the dissolution of a high profile wealthy marriage where it benefits both parties more if they maintain a marriage in name only to protect their assets and reputation. (And I'll freely admit to talking out of my ass here because I don't have a clue how any of that works. Those are just my initial thoughts. It could be that if no one is sure where the band goes fom here, they may be trying to protect the legacy.)


I wasn't following the band when Alec and Bon Jovi parted company (regardless of how or why it happened) but the more I read about that
situation in old articles/interviews the more it bears a striking resemblance to what is happening now with Richie. Jon uses almost identical phrases in some cases.

Shocking! Something Richie said in an interview over a year later conveniently sheds a whole new light on the situation and (gasp!) it makes Richie come out smelling like roses (if you twist and contort it to fit your theory of when it all actually went down, IF it all actually went down at all). This is what? The 4th, 5th, maybe 6th reason/excuse he has given? Please, next week it will be something else.

Actually, I think it was the FIRST reason he alluded to, both in general ("personal reasons") and specifically ("Jon and I just aren't happening right now... Y'know it's family business, and the band's like family. Family business stays in the family"). That's probably not an exact quote but it's close enough for government work.

But I'm not sure what you think was twisted and contorted?

Richie's voice sounded tired but also good if that makes any sense. I really liked that performance! Orianthi also has a good voice, what bugged me is that not even in that small acoustic setting could we be spared the pointing as in "go ahead, your turn now" thing he's doing lately!! :lol: It's almost turning into a parody lol

I don't know how much power Jon has but I'm pretty sure that he has connections out the ying yang. And somebody went to the trouble to filter through the Forbes list to find out what Bon Jovi had that wasn't already represented among the first 12 names so Bon Jovi would be the top "something" and fed that to ABC, along with the requisite "even without Sambora" statement. They did the same thing for tbe Rock Rich list and said Jovi topped the list again when there wasn't even a list prior to that.

I wasn't picking on Jon or saying he's evil. I was just pointing out that they're both getting in their digs just like they did while the tour was still going on. And it's okay that he's not perfect. Really, the world won't end because the man's human.

Jon doesn't need a writer at every news outlet to pick up stories. That what he pays a PR staff for. And if you think Jon doesn't have a highly paid and very competent staff who does exactly that kind of thing and then feeds it to the Forbes, the Billboards, and other "random" outlets, you're more naive that I thought you were.

These weren't stories about a #1 BWC tour. They were stories about the other successful artists from this year and howJovi had fallen from 7th to 13th. Pretty sure ABC didn't jump all over that as a top news story without a nudge from somebody. The BWC tour ended over 6 months ago. The only people who are still talking about it are deranged fans like us. Nobody else gives a rip.

Check out the timing on these little 'non-news' news blurbs and compare them to what's going on with Richie at the time. There's a pattern.

And then, maybe I'm wrong. It's been known to happen. ;)

At any rate, this thread isn't about "Evil Richie vs St. Jon" or "Why is Jon such a jerk when Richie's such a good guy?" Somebody just said they didn't like the way Richie digs at Jon (and I don't either, btw) and all I was saying is he's not the only one who's doing it. Jon, as always, is more subtle when he sticks the knife in. But you can bet that Richie's getting his message, too.

Sorry, Jackie, but I really think you're smoking something on this latest "belief" you have about Jon. You seem to want to believe the absolute worst about him in every situation, so I guess your latest "theory" shouldn't surprise anyone.

Whatever. Smoke another one. LOL

You do realize that you're making an analogy of your own conspiracy (Jon's hired PR people bribing Forbes, Billboard and other outlets) vs. the words that came directly from Richie's mouth during interviews?

I kind of agree with this. And if there is a PR game going on between the two, my money is on Jon. He is a lot smarter with the media than Richie will ever be. On the other hand, Richie can be honest to a fault whereas Jon can absolutely lie to the camera and get away with it. Jon always has the band's image and legacy in his head hence the coffee table WWWB book and documentary vs an honest portrayal.

I realize exactly what I said, and for one thing I never said that anyone bribed anybody, nor did I imply that there was a conspiracy. I suggested a theory, based on the way Pulic Relations often works. My theory is that Jon very likely has a staff whose job it is to scour the news and find opportunities to get Jon's (and the band's) image in the press and to distribute any positive messages related to that image in as many ways as they can. It's entirely possible that the same staff would, at Jon's directive, distribute any negative messages just as easily. And I may be the only one here who doesn't see Jon as a marshmallow who would just let arrows slung at him fly past without reacting, but that just doesn't fit any image I have of a man with Jon's 'have a nice day' attitude. Sorry, but contrary to popular belief, I don't look for the worst in Jon; I do, however, think he'd give as good as he gets when digs are thrown his way, even if he does it in such a way that it can be ignored by those who prefer their heroes to be of the saint variety. And for the record, that's a theory, too. ;)

The articles regarding the untimely accolades he (and/or the band) is receiving lately seem to me to accomplish both of those missions at the same time. The accompanying articles consistently point out that the BWC tour was successful and it was successful without Sambora. As I said to Becky, this isn't breaking news for anyone. None of the outlets presenting the information would be seeking out newsbytes about a tour that ended six months ago (and bringing up an irregularity that occurred almost a year and a half ago) without prompting from someone.And tbe most likely canidate for "someone" in this case would Mr. Sunshine or someone on his staff.

And yes, I also realize that it's my theory bumping up against actual words Richie is saying - although in this particular case, he didn't actually say anything about Jon, did he? And while I admit that it's reasonable to surmise that he may have been referring to Jon, since he DIDN'T actually SAY that was who he meant, doesn't that make the comparison rather theoretical on both sides?

But then I guess it's okay to theorize about Richie, since no one would DREAM of assuming the worst about him, right? :rolleyes:

Through the years it has been obvious that Jon places an extremely high value on loyalty. Richie departing the tour was (and is) a huge disloyalty. The fact that Richie stated in the summer of 2013 during a red carpet interview that they were "close to resolving things and he would be back soon" obviously wasn't the case. Jon would have a hard time forgiving Richie--and he would have some legitimate reasons to feel that way. I do hope Richie can return to Bon Jovi but I am not holding my breath.

time will heal the wounds as long as both sides stop making new bitter statements...there are many similarities with the break after new jersey, at this moment they both focus on the negatives...they ve been together for so long that its inevitable they will meet again

I'm sick of all this shit to be honest... Sat here listening to inside out and I really want to see my band touring again all as one.

It's the fans that suffer through all this, makes my year when I go to a jovi gig and I'm gutted that there is no indication of them ever getting back together not to mention another tour.

I know they can't tour every year but would be nice to hear something coming out from the band that it's not all over and we will see you all again etc.

The problem, Jackie, is that you're making shit up when it comes to the things you say Jon has said or done. Jon has said ONE thing that was objectionable since this started and that was that Edge comment. Richie has been taking digs at Jon and the band for weeks. I'm not keeping track, but saying he hates Runaway and taking a dig at the Bounce album come to mind. Also, he keeps saying, "I wrote the songs," instead of "We." Compare that to Jon having some class and thanking Richie in his Songwriter's Icon Award speech recently. He said he wrote some hits alone, but he also acknowledged that he writes in collaboration with other great writers that "make going to work fun." Richie, on the other hand, is acting like he's the mastermind behind Bon Jovi's success. Classless. Petty. Childish.

In all your posts, Jon is the villain and Richie is the victim. That's why several of us question your latest theory that Jon is personally feeding the press digs at Richie.

Perhaps, though, if you want to continue to spew your theories at us, you should take it to the No Richie on this leg of the tour thread so people can get back to talking about Dublin in this thread.

Hear hear. Not to derail the thread further but when this broke Jon was taking all sorts of shite from the media and maintained the "it's for personal reasons - you have to ask him" line. Jon was accused of screwing Richie out of money, of revising all the band contracts with Tico to jump next, abusing Richie and his parenting skills amongst other things. Not once did Jon or his PR people hang Richie out to dry over the real reason he left the tour. Not many people would or could have behaved with the class and dignity Jon did. I'm not saying he is perfect but he's a bigger man than most.

The BWC tour, whatever its faults, was the biggest tour of 2013. That in itself attracts publicity and column inches. Naturally Richie leaving will always be associated with the tour. Jon has nothing to do with those two facts being written about together.

My mom texted me this morning saying she heard on the radio that Jon and Richie "made up" and that they're open to touring together in the future.

Can anyone confirm? I haven't kept up with this drama in months.

First I've heard.

Always been a Jon fan more than a Richie fan (not that I have ever disliked Richie) but Jon actually surprised me with how well he dealt with the situation. He seemed fed up at times, sure. I would be! But the way he answered some questions and in all honesty, never really had a go at Richie was great on his behalf.

Never said he wrote anything on his own at the shows, always praised the fans for being patient and is still thanking Richie in speeches. Don't think Richie would thank Jon if he got an award in all honesty. I genuinely don't.

yo momma taking the piss :cool:

Though maybe some hope? Random article from yesterday;

Aside from the fact that your response is a tad sharp, as if Jackie has had a go at your mum, there seems to be a lot of people conveniently forgetting something here...

The 'personal reasons... ask him' thing was something that suited Jon down to the ground. I think we can safely say, from the sudden explosion of music and opinion from Richie at the point that he travelled to Australia last year, that whilst under contract, he was was unable to discuss things at length with the press or perform whilst under a contract to Bon Jovi. Now, the stock response to this from anyone who just loves to fellate Mr Bon Jovi is simply 'You don't know that, it's speculation'. Absolutely it is. But all that joy everyone took in bashing the sh*t out of Richie for going through intermediaries to crappy press outlets... and now he's a million miles away from that - anyone who has any idea how the press/media works will know how detailed these contracts can be and that includes being able to discuss things with mainstream media.

Jon spent months being lambasted by people did he? I never witnessed anything that came close to the relentless 'drugged-up, drunk, slurring, fat, bloated waste of space, jamming with fabric, Phil is ten times the guitarist you are' stuff that was thrown at Richie on a minute-by-minute basis on here and everywhere else. Including in the press. Jon, stood back and let it happen. So I can understand why RS is pissed. Can you imagine your parents/friends/record company/manager reading that and it NOT being true?

Both of them are able to act like total cocks. If Jon cared about the state of his voice half as much as he cared about the state of his abs, we'd still have a half decent lead singer to listen to. The tour was rushed; Richie was told 'play or leave' and he made the wrong decision - they both did. Some people have just turned it into an opportunity to spend a year and a half bashing the crap out of someone who made a mistake and should have stood his ground. But it's over and for those still going on and on and on and on and on about it... seems to me you couldn't have liked the guy very much in the first place and were waiting for an opportunity to slate him... so what's your problem?

If Jackie had been defending Jon, no one would have accused her of hijacking a thread...

Richie-Glasgow- wrecked!

Thanks, Beaky. I'm pretty sure that if that were the case I wouldn't have been told that I "make shit up" either. Of course that's just another of my theories... :rolleyes:

Aloha !

The problem is Becky, that you're now accusing Richie of doing exactly the same things Jon's been doing for a good 10 years. It's only after the backlash of the WWWB documentary that he's changed his attitude a bit. But you've been defending your Jon over things like this over and over, yet when Richie does it, Jon's suddenly the victim? Your naivety in regards to how Jon handles things and what kind of person he is has always been borderline ridiculous, so I don't think it's your place to actually call someone out on creating bullshit theories when they make a lot more sense than the nonsense you used to spout off.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

I’m glad Bounce7800 moved this discussion. I want to clarify a few things.

I don’t make shit up. We may see things differently but “making shit up” implies lying. I don’t lie and I resent the implication.

I don’t demonize Jon or victimize Richie. I checked my posts to see if I had been more critical than I thought and in 234 posts, there were 10. Less than 5% may be negative about Jon and 3 were in this discussion. 3 more were together in a similar discussion re spinning the press. One replied to your opinion that Jon had too much class to take Richie to court and I thought he’d sue Richie if he had a case. 2 said Jon HAD stated publicly that Richie would sing songs from Aftermath on tour. But I think the problem for you started with my 1st post where I suggested that Jon may be part of the reason Richie walked because IMO he was goading Richie in Calgary with, “we’re sorry he’s not here for you” and that there was a veiled threat in the “he won’t be performing anywhere”, implying IMO that Richie might be restricted from performing if it not with Bon Jovi.

I posted 8 positive comments about Jon, including 3 where I defended him against unfair comments. (BTW, when’s the last time you defended or complimented Richie?)

I made 3 posts criticizing Richie and 24 where I argued that people were judging prematurely or defended him against (mis)interpretation of his statements. For example, why is the fact that he wouldn’t want to play Runaway or his comments about Bounce considered a dig at THE BAND? How is the fact that he has more freedom or more control over his schedule as a solo artist a dig at Jon? And why weren’t such statements considered digs when he said the same things in other interviews over the years?

The rest of my posts were neutral or unrelated comments.

In one of the posts where I defended Jon I said that with the exception of “The Edge” comment, Jon hadn’t given any indication that he didn’t support Richie. Preaching to the choir, babe!

So David Bryan trashed the band when he said of In These Arms, “I wrote it”? Do you want me to dig up all the times JON said “I wrote…” about co-written songs?

Richie has said, “I’m the songwriter”, yes. But within context it’s clear that he’s not taking credit from Jon any more than Jon was taking credit from him the umpteen million times he said, “I wrote…” either. Richie is explaining why it’s not just the time on tour that made his work a continuous cycle, but that he does a lot more than just record and tour. People don’t take that into consideration when they ask, “Why don’t David and Teek feel this way?” Jon and Richie are the ones who write, demo, select, mix, master, produce, and promote. It’s also been a response to questions about him doing Jovi songs in his shows to clarify that they’re his songs, too. Not just that he “owns” them as much as Jon; but that they mean something to him just like his solo songs do, so why wouldn’t he want to sing them?

I haven’t seen it. But if you want to get into claims of being the mastermind and the SOLE f*ckin reason for the band’s success, I can have THAT conversation with you, starting with: "Does that mean that you think Jon is “classless, petty, and childish?” It seems to me that it’s Jon, if anyone, who gives ONE band member sole credit for everything the band has ever done (via “authorized” info and band mythology). And his obsessed fans credit him not only with that but for any of Richie’s success as well. They’d give Jon credit for world peace and saving all of Christendom if they could get away with it.

All that said, would you now like for me to do a similar analysis on comments you’ve posted about Richie? And not just since he left the tour either! In reading the archives, I’ve noticed that Richie’s one of your go-to defenses against things said about Jon and when people say something good about Richie, you just have to post something to negate it or to show where Jon has done something just as good or better.

The way I see it, Becky, "the problem" is your lack of perspective when it comes to Jon. It’s not that I cast Jon as villain and Richie as victim. It’s that somewhere inside yourself you know Jon’s not perfect and maybe you can admit to yourself there – in your own little corner, in your own little room – but it galls your ass to a fare-thee-well if someone says it “out loud” because you’re afraid that somewhere Richie might come off looking just a little bit better than Jon and you just can’t stand it.

In my opinion, whenever Jon called to Phil X as brother Phil, was a blow to Richie, I felt that.

We can discuss and analyze everything, but at the end of the day, we all know that this band needed a long break, and rescan everything you have done with a more critical eye.

Richie needed to do his solo stuff, and for that you need more time. A time in that Jon seemed interfere. I think the future can be promising with the return of Sambora to the band.

Stop it man, I've seen the videos and other comments from people who were there, it was a good show man.

Richie Sambora - Bridge Over Troubled Water - O2 Glasgow

Not surprising, coming from the same person who preferred the possibility that Richie was still struggling with substance abuse as an explanation for why he was away from the tour over an explanation that might make Jon look bad.

For the record, Richie hasn't said that he wrote the songs "on his own" either.

And before you "genuinely" go too far down that last road, you might want to check this out at about the 2:20 mark:




Just sayin'...

Jackie, I don't really care enough about this to go back and reread your posts or my posts (once was enough) so I'm not going to match you with a meta-analysis. My time is too valuable for that. The general attitude that comes across from your posts is Jon is at fault and Richie is just responding to whatever big bad Jon did to him. Maybe in your heart of hearts you don't mean to come across that way, but you do.

Also, you can't say you don't make things up because I saw a post from you not too long ago where you made up a quote that you think may be something like what Jon said and you put it in quotation marks. But it was all based on your THEORY of what Jon said because Richie said he was given an ultimatum. It wasn't that long ago so you can probably remember it. But, yes, you did make it up. None of us know what was said between Jon and Richie. And your whole notion that Jon is feeding the press digs at Richie is hardly based on cold, hard facts. It's just another theory.

And I stand by the way Richie has been saying, "I write the songs" lately comes across like he wants to be seen as the mastermind of the band. That's my interpretation, which like your theories is <i>not necessarily the way it is</i>, but how it comes across to me.

Richie's comments about Runaway and Bounce are insulting to Jon (Runaway) and the band (Bounce) because he's insulting their hard work. How would you take it Jon said someone else did "The Answer" and did it better than Richie did just because it has the same title? I know that's a bad example because I can't think of another song with that title, but Richie said someone else did "Runaway" and did it better than Jon because there's an old song with that title. That's pretty low. And if Jon had said it, you would be all over it. If it weren't for Runaway, Bon Jovi wouldn't have gotten a record deal and where would Richie be right now? Probably not in the position to bite the hand that feeds him.

No one has to tell me Jon's not perfect. But he's also not the villain he's been made out to be through the years on this board either. If you'd been around here for the last decade+, you would know that Jon has been made out to be everything but the devil himself. SOMEONE has to defend him. Jon has had very few champions on this website through the years. The fact is, the most I've ever seen positive comments directed toward Jon has come in the last year since Richie left. So if, like me, you actually LIKE and RESPECT Jon, you've learned to be on the defensive. I can't even begin to tell you how many fans of Jon have just given up and left because of the negativity. Yes, they do go to Backstage where it's actually okay to like Jon. So then they're called "Backstagers" around here in a demeaning tone. Try being a fan of Jon on Dry County. It's no easy existence. That's why I defend him, not because I think he's perfect.

And, for the record, before Richie started bailing on tours and running his mouth like he has been lately, I didn't have any problem with HIM. Sure, I don't like his singing voice. I never have and I never will. I don't apologize for that. The first time I heard him singing, I didn't know it was him and my reaction was, "What is this SHIT?" It was my honest reaction. I don't like my singing voice either. I don't like the minister of music at my church's singing voice. I'm entitled to have my own taste in singers.

But I never had problem with him as a human being. I just had a problem with his fans who always acted like he was God and Jon was someone to be scorned. And, girl, that goes back to the days of pen-pals before I ever even knew the internet existed. There's always been a divide between Richie Fans and Jon Fans and there always will be.

Gah, this post is too freaking long. I wouldn't even bother reading it if it were me. LOL