Some people or so far in dreamland (or in denial), it's becoming ridiculous.:rolleyes:

I'll never understand this fascination with YouTube reactions anyway. "This guy here says Jon's voice is TOAST! It's official!". We all have ears, do we really need other people to tell us this? Or the "THIS guy says he has a cure for Jon! Jon is stupid for not going to him!" angle.

Do you think the band are unaware of his condition? That he hasn't talked to experts?

Every few months: It's over

Three tours later, the same people: Its over

new message

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cp1QyGbvIHh/

In terms of touring, it should have been over three tours ago [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

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Yep. His voice is a disaster since 2017. But Jon is very stubborn and tickets are still being sold.

haha I didn't mean literally three tours ago but you're not wrong hahaha.

So it seems like they’re recording a new album at the moment if this clip is really recent!


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If Jon was writing with Desmond a week or so ago, that I would think that Jon is only in the demo phase of the recording.

That's some pretty nice gear in the background!! 🫠👌🏻....

this background is for shanks home studio...

it seems like jon is recording some new songs...i dont think its demos since they stopped demoing many years back unfortunately..

i wonder why jon has kept shanks for so long...i am sure he is a great producer but every artist at some point must try a change to sound fresh. the vocal issues from jons side surely have played its role but i am sure many engineers could work around it ..

i think jon should break the cycle by now, shanks is not a producer who challenges the band he is just a safe choice...and i d really like to see richie involved, anyway wishfull thinking

Is that true? If so they are the only band I've ever come across that don't demo material first, usually on a home studio set up of some sort. That seems like a very bizarre way to work. How do you show the other guys in the band what you want if there isn't a template to work from? From when did this stop? Maybe explains why the recent stuff sound the way it does...

Can't get my head around it. Surely at least there needs to be songwriting demos?

a guaranty for another shitty produced album

I think Jon's so insecure about his vocals by now that he only trusts Shanks to work with.

About the demos: They sped up the process with Shanks, they didn't drop it altogether. Jon said "we don't demo songs so extensively anymore" back in the day. Also remember the story Jon told a few years back about when called Tico in the fall of 2011 to come in and play on some demos for WAN to which the Hitman declined.

They do demo the songs. It's just that since HAND everything went digital that the demos become the actual songs. I think about it like the "demos" are more like guide tracks and the finished tracks get recorded, some may stay and some just get deleted. But the days of the mastered demos that get released as b-sides are long gone. Songs like ain't done yet is an example of this, sounds closer to a finished track than something like No Regrets but with a LOT of polishing, editing and overdubbing left to do .....

****. This band, man... It really did become just a machine, didn't it?

I'm sure Jon is still recording demos, but as you say, Dom, they don't polish and re-working the song as much as they used to.

Billy Falcon said that there were several versions of Halo, with different lyrics or rhythms. So...


When Jon has the demos/guide tracks and knows how he wants the album to sound, he'll call the band, they will stage a farce that they're recording the new album with Tico, David, Phil and Hugh. They will take photos and some small video. They may even re-record some tracks and then mix them down.

I don't remember exactly, but I think Phil said that he was in the studio for 9 days with the band, for the 2020 album. And he felt like a fly on the wall.

Shit, I don't even remember how many solos Phil did on the album anymore, I think it was only a couple of them right? Why does he need them when have John Shanks on guitar, piano and programming drums? I wouldn't be surprised if he also did Hugh's job.

Jon will never change producers, Shanks not only co-writes and produces, he can also record any track with any instrument. Do you know how many conversations and discussions had Jon each time he records a song? With Shanks probably none.

Jon is probably in that process of guide tracks.

HAND was the album with drums and bass recorded last with everyone being pretty much told what to play. There have been dozens and dozens of examples of four-five-six people in a studio recording the songs at the same time in the last 15 years.

Heck, 2020's sessions were mostly that. THINFS had everything on the album proper, the b-sides and what ended up on Burning Bridges. I'd say they recorded closer to 30 songs for that. People are clutching their pearls because Jon is inside Shanks's studio right now and have already written off whatever's come next because they're mis-remembering how they think the albums are getting made.

Yeah the Nashville sessions were 9 days. But it was all of them taking Jon's demos and turning them into songs you can hear them each play on. Like it or hate the songs, that's far from the HAND days.

It may be in the sense of band involvement but they were specifically talking about demos. It's done the same way, the "demos" become the actual finished tracks, they don't finish a demo and the work on the actual album track anymore. It's way more efficient and this way even the outtakes sound way closer to finished tracks than before 2005....

I'm not sure I agree. Jon came to Nashville with rough iPhone demos and they got together and fleshed them into songs. Granted a bunch of song also made the cut that clearly were done in the studio piecemeal. I think earlier albums had a few more steps

Rough Demo
Pre-production
Production
Overdubs

But going from rough demo to production to overdubs isn't that crazy. The current process isn't drastically different than the old days if the rough idea becomes a song that gets recorded by everyone (For the songs that includes). I think they drastically underuse Phil, but the whole "I bet it's Jon and Shanks playing everything" angle, even with all the proof in the world that's not the case, I never got it.

2020 had a LOT of problems. a LOOOOOT. But it was damn refreshing the curtain was pulled back enough for them to show who played what on what.

But that's exactly what I'm saying, those recordings became the songs, whether by the band or Jon and Shanks it doesn't matter. Those weren't extensive demos, they were the beginning of what became the finished tracks. The ones that made the album were overdubed, edited, polished etc., but they weren't there to demo the tracks, they were there to record the songs and the actual tracks with every intention of them making the album.

Ah now I get what you're saying.

I can't even tell what we're basing any of this on. There is so little press and interviews done about their demo-ing, recording process. I do agree they weren't there to demo the tracks but when are they ever? Hasn't this always been the case? A shitty scratch recording of a song with a drum machine on top of it feels like the norm, just the big difference is Richie isn't there. Two songs worlds apart are We Rule The Night and Everyday. Both demo version are two people and a drum machine.

I think I assumed the tracks Jon is bringing in from his iPhone recording as similar to the Richie's mom's basement tapes, just on a higher quality device. Band wasn't there for that stage either, just the people writing the song. I have a hard time discerning how that process is any different than what 2020 was apart from one of the chief songwriters not being there. If a low quality germ of an idea gets fleshed out with everyone writing the parts they play and working on building the track, isn't that the same thing or am I totally misunderstanding people's issue? We're way too late in the game to still be thinking Shanks is secretly playing the bass, right?

Well to be fair, the only one I can honestly base it on is the bounce sessions. Where the demoing process and the actual recording of the finished tracks were split into different sessions so I just assumed that prior to that they were done the same way. But there's been so many albums before and after that it's entirely possible that it could vary by album or even bt songs.

I for one believe the credits that appear on YouTube as to who played what on the songs, but there's a lot of people that don't lol....

Shouldnt these last few post be in the (a) new album thread? Nothing to do with Richie.

I will say that jon just had to mention hampton water during that 10 second clip in studio.

Ive been sitting on this for a while but I do have some info on the new album.
Im sworn to secrecy from my contact at Universal Music but...we are all friends here.

I can tell you some songs are called...

Blood in the hampton water.

Thats what the hampton water made me.

Whole lotta hampton water

River ran dry..until i filled it with Hampton water.

Keep it on here cheers

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the album 2020 sounded more organic with less prossesed instruments, that was more the production style than the band involvement...
i think that since hand the bands participation has been limited, thats related to the poor output quality..
jon writes the songs with different co writers...shanks set the template and programs the main tracks and the rest of the guys come later on the process and add fills and licks...

its true that a main structure should proexist and afterwards during jams and rehearshal each member can add sth...at least in a band like bj. but during their peak you could see huge difference between the demos and the final tracks... inspiration, hard work, commitment for the best record possible each played their role...nowdays jon seems to go by good enough..

for me Richie should be back, he could add some magic in the songs both guitarwise and vocalwise, imo jon should take a step back and for the sake of the legacy try to make it a band again and not a solo endeavour..
ps. looking back jon systematically tried to sound like popular bands of the time but great songwriting and the ping pong between richie and him made the songs sth bigger and greater than the sum of its parts

Jon did interview in kerrang after Blaze of Glory saying he couldnt see himelf doing another solo record but all bon jovi records are his solo records anyway.

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Ha

Hamp ton Nice Day

I remember that quote from kerrang, there is also an interview from uk TV from the blaze promo where he's says exactly same thing ! been looking for it for ages but no luck

I think some of you have misunderstood me. I'm not saying that the band didn't record the album, I'm just saying that they didn't participate in the demo sessions.

This means Jon spends less time discussing the other members' ideas. That does not mean that later Tico or David cannot make changes for the final version. The process is just different with John Shanks.

I can't just blame Jon for this decision either, as surely the rest of the band wouldn't be as committed to the recording process, and doing it this way benefits both of them. Jon could have gone two ways to avoid this kind of thing:

Leave more free time between album-tour cycles, so the band would be more willing. If Jon can't help but move on, releasing a solo album would be the other option, but after realizing that his latest solo album doesn't sell as well as a Bon Jovi one, it just wouldn't be viable. So getting a producer delivered as JS, was what finally solved the problem.

When John Shanks came along, most of the demos were done with Jon, Richie and Shanks. Now just Jon and Shanks. At the end of the day, this is better than no new music.

It's not the same as before, but there are still great things. Would a song like When We Were Us be much different with Richie and the band in the recording process? who knows, the thing is that this one still fantastic as it is.

This is quite an interesting question. By the time of What About Now Richie's involvement in the recording process seems to have already been reduced somewhat. I'm not sure if that is because he was busy with his solo record, he was being pushed out, or he'd simply lost interest by this point.

How would the non-Richie albums have sounded if Richie was still in the band - not that different. Jon and Shanks already seemed to have a firm control over how the band sounded by this point and I think the main difference on these records if Richie has been involved are whatever songwriting input he would have had and of course his backing vocals. Even on stuff from the What About Now era, on stuff like Into The Echo Richie's backing vocals were still prominent. And that is the main thing I miss on these records. I think When We Were Us would really benefit from some of those backing vocals.

Yep. I think Richie didn't get as involved with What About Now because he was working on his solo album at the same time. By the way, Seven Years Gone, what a fantastic song!

As for how it would sound with Richie on the backing vocals... it would be great to hear him, but there's no guarantee that their voices will finally make it into the mix. I mean, not every song features Richie's vocals, although in this case, it probably would have.

Indeed!

Yes that's very true. Certain songs just cry out for a Richie BV. Scars On This Guitar for instance, I'd love to hear a version of this with Richie.

Saw it on twitter the other day.

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Isn't the full quote something like "The Bon Jovi records are my solo records anyways, as they are Richie's or Dave's or Tico's".

It's blatenty not true, haha, but he's definitely said that as well. Think that may have also been around the same time. Pretty sure he didn't mention Alec, I remmeber noting that at the time.

Then says something about how they all get input. Can't remember exactly.

Ohhhh, so THAT’S why it’s pink!


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Gotcha, I think we're all using different terms to say similar things.

There's Demos, Pre-Production and Production. If we're using Javier's reference of the Bounce sessions, we didn't see the demo stage and we saw Pre and Prod. Since 2005 it feels like we've skipped Pre-Production and gone right from Demos to Production. I think we're all saying the same thing, just mixing up Demos and Pre-Production. I don't think they've gotten to the studio for any stage without a song and just wrote it on the spot, (or if they have ,it can't be many of them)

Jon's voice on the last tour was nothing like we've ever heard before. He was lip syncing full songs for the first time ever.

When was the last Runaway show? He ALWAYS does those shows on band down time.

How about private corporate gigs? They've done a lot of those in the past too when they're not touring for a quick buck.

Honestly, when was the last time Jon performed in front of an audience?

His voice is gone. I truly think it's over as far as live shows are concerned. I could see him doing a reunion/anniversary/farewell tour with Richie, but continuing with the Shanks, Phil, Everette lineup? Nah. The reviews last tour were too brutal.

He's clearly been told to take some time off. That's the only reason a businessman like Jon would not be touring during the 40th anniversary. The fact he never joined Springsteen on stage despite being added to the setlist proves as much.

I guess we won't know for sure whether any surgery has been a success until the end of the year.

I'm starting to fear it will be no more than a minor improvement, if that.

Where was he added to the selist?
Did I miss something? Last Man Standing isn't Jon's song.

Yeah he was supposed to sign with Springsteen at a Florida gig this year. He backed out at the end.