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Anyway, I'm going to turn the page on this, I'm happy for the new album, so I'm not going to spoil this for some statements of Jon (about Richie) for the promotion. |
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You could still be Brothers and not get along. My best friend growing up hates his brother but still knows him better than anyone else. Again, stop taking everything so literally. It doesn't necessarily mean they socialize with the same people but they work in the same industry. Conversations happen. Hypothetical... Shanks lives in California, Richie lives in California. Shanks runs into Bob Rock and they talk about Richie... Again Hypothetical... Could be the record executive at Mercury. Trust me, it's not hard for Jon to get updates on Richie from reliable sources. Hugh runs into Richie at a fundraiser (and I know that was longer than 3 years ago) but I'm just making point. Richie sees Steven Van Zant... Etc You don't know who they know but I can almost guarantee that Jon has gotten a Richie update(s) and has seen videos. We've even seen it as fans. The guys a ****ing mess. It saddens me to no end. I'm looking forward to his newest album just as much as anymore. But as an individual, Richie needs help. Sent from my SM-A015V using Tapatalk |
Yeah, cos Bob Rock is going to dish the dirt on Richie, who he is clearly very close to, to Shanks. :rolleyes:
Same thing with Little Steven. Mercury is still involved with Jon obviously, I doubt that they have any contact with Richie. But again, labels are full of yes men that tell their artists what they want to hear. You want the truth you won't hear it from a label... I'm not getting in to this with you again, just go back and read the previous conversations as the response will be the same. Richie was a mess around 2014-2016 i've never desputed that. Nothing I've seen from Richie indicates that he's a mess currently. Badly dressed, yes, but nothing like 2014-2016. But as he's been mostly off the rader we really haven't seen enough of him to judge. And clearly neither has Jon... My point stands. If you were together for 30 years, to just cut ties completely, apart from a brief reunion at the hall of fame, so suddenly means there is a lot more doing on that we will probably ever know... |
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"The early Bon Jovi stuff I can't stand. I just think we didn't have our stylistic voice. But some people love some of that stuff. Like people are going "[play] Run Away" and I'm going "I hate that song! I'll never play it again!" Maybe he hates that song because he didnt write the solo and didnt record the song that gave Jon the record deal? Who knows,but at least he could have shown a little more respect for the fans who love those early albums. |
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It's not the same as publicly speaking about one of your supposedly former best freinds addictions and problems again and again in the press. In the latest interview he was just asked how it was to play with Richie again at the Hall of Fame. The rest of it he had no need to bring up except to make a point. |
I’ve found it a bit much to be honest. Jon’s volunteered the Richie comments rather than had an interviewer draw them or get a nugget and make a meal of it. But…
Jon was extremely respectful around the time it all kicked off with Richie. He basically just said “personal issues”. Towed the company line even when Richie was taking shots at Jon and the band. Jon kept a dignified silence and always spoke well of Richie. He had some nasty stuff written about him (“Jon’s taking too much money”) and got pilloried by some fans. He bit his tongue and showed a degree of class that very few would. Maybe now, he just wants to set the record straight. I don’t agree with how often he’s speaking about it and I don’t really agree with it. But if I felt that I’d been slighted in such a public way, I’d find it hard to bite my tongue or allow a wrong to go un-righted. |
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The wound will never close. |
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They know a million people that we don't know. They were in the same band for 30 years and work in the same industry. It's not gossip in the sense of gossip. It could just be a simple sentence from an hour long conversation with a mutual acquaintance "Hey Jon, btw I ran into Richie last month and he doesn't look well" You think just because Jon hasn't spoken to Richie for 2 plus years, he has no ideas how he's doing. Like they both live under rocks. Come on man, life doesn't work that way. Stop taking ever word so literal and get out of your denial stage. Sent from my SM-A015V using Tapatalk |
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Luv is like a gentle rain Pulls you up when you go under Love will let you live again. ;) |
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That's not saying his comments now are right. I'm uncomfortable with them. I've read that he's said Richie's got drink problems, drug problems, can't get it together and isn't sane. That's a bit unpleasant. But I understand why he might be getting his side of the story out there. |
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Youve said here saveral times that Bon Jovi was a band,a yes,your right,but was and still is Jons band. You can found abound with people and ia everybodys band or you can found a band by yourself and then find people to join the band. In that last case,you can write the songs between all or various members but at the end of the day,it is still YOUR band. U2 is not Bonos band,Bon Jovi is Jons band. And the other point you made,...,Richie had a substance problem. Its public and notorious,I dont see the problem when Richie entered rehab,at least 2 times in the last 13 years. |
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It's no secret at this point. Richie has made some digs of his own. He's the one who walk out the band (not just Jon), and Jon probably wants to clear the air that that's the reason. It's not because poor Richie was overworked. Or some other bs blame Jon was getting for this. And remember, not everything is said in public. You have no idea what was said third party... Oh wait sorry. According to Thinny he has inside information that they have no acquaintances in common and live under rocks. Sent from my SM-A015V using Tapatalk |
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I believe he's righting a wrong. He took a lot of shit, publicly, when Richie left the band. He's now putting the record straight. |
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Wow that statement is really brutal especially since a) there are some who like 2020 b) it paints Jon as truly driven only by money and fame. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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Aloha !
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Richie left the tour a day before the show was supposed to happen. He not just bailed on Jon but bailed on an entire audience and team. He then got involved with shitty tabloid writers to spread bullshit around. Started taking credit for songs he co-wrote pretending he wrote them. Started trashing the band by saying they took a wrong direction later in their career. Said he needed freedom. Claimed he'd been a lead-singer in all his previous bands. Started bigging himself up while both the band and BJM had done about a decade of trying to make sure he'd keep it together. Meanwhile everyone in the band has never said a word. Never aired any dirty laundry. Jon's never said a word. Everyone in the industry knows what went on behind closed doors and no one's said anything. The booze. The cocaine. The painkillers. No one's said a word and those who did are constantly told they're liars by the Richie-police. It's been over 5 years and what's Richie done? There's not a sober performance on youTube out there. Not a guitar solo without mistakes. Not a song without ****ups. Richie supposedly wanted freedom and what has he done with all that freedom? He's released **** all. Richie bailed and so far hasn't owned up to any of the bullshit he's pulled off the past 7 years. But you're saying the lead singer and partner he worked with is not allowed to say a word because it's low? All these Bon Jovi fans trying to put the blame on Jon Bon Jovi by pretending Jon didn't have his back, or didn't do enough and constantly randomly select whatever information they want to take in what information they want to ignore. Richie Sambora did his first show out of his mind in 2005 and then left Bon Jovi in 2013. That's well over 7 years of unreliability. But yes. According to you Jon's the one who's doing low blows. The mental gymnastics people try to pull off to make Jon look like the bad guy in this scenario are mind-boggling. I'm no fan of Jon Bon Jovi but the way this has been handled by him and everyone involved deserves nothing but praise. Salaam Aleikum, Sebastiaan |
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Spot on. Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk |
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This is why I wish Jon would just shut up about Richie. In virtually every interview he's done since 2016, he's dragged Richie into it; and as soon as he does, people start up with this BS. Then, if anybody tries to correct misrepresented facts in their assumptions or faded memories, or tries to show how what Jon said "this time" contradicts what he said "last time", they're accused of defending Richie, of blaming Jon, of taking what Jon says too literally, of refusing to acknowledge the truth, or of beating a dead horse. Or all of the above.
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I don't blame Jon for the split; and I honestly don't think that most of the fans, outside of a few extremists, think he's totally to blame, either. I personally think there's probably some shared responsibility, and that neither of them is lily white in what led to the split or when it comes to public relations since then. But I also think Jon keeps the focus on Richie's addictions because he doesn't want anybody looking past that for anything else that may have caused Richie to leave. So I do blame him for keeping this fanbase divided over the situation. Because every time it starts to heal, there's a new round of promotions and he starts digging it right back up again. And if there ever was a reason to do that, that time has LONG since passed. He needs to let it go. |
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How Jon has done this has been a bit undignified but if I was him, I'd have been a lot less classy than Jon was at the time. Quote:
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Okay, let's say Jon knows how to do his job very well, and protect his business. But the physical and mental exhaustion of record-tour-record-tour has taken its toll on Richie, who already had major personal problems. In fact, his arrogance and greed for business have made Jon lose his voice forever. 2013 WAN TOUR: 104 Shows 2011 Greastest Hits LIVE TOUR: 59 shows 2010 THE CIRCLE TOUR: 85 shows 2007/2008 LOST HIGHWAY TOUR: 98 shows More than 100 shows in less than 1 year, that was crazy, the machine was never going to stop, so I can see how Richie couldn't face this, carrying personal problems pending since 2005. Jon knew this would happen, as it happened on 2011 tour. They're not both saints, but Jon always prided himself on being the boss, the CEO, and neglected the human factor. Time and space is important to the health of your band. After that, Jon understood, but the cost was too great. Not only has he lost Richie, but he also lost his voice. Too bad he didn't lose his ego and arrogance. In the end we are fans, we worry, even if Richie was the only culprit, I would defend this guy who is hitting rock bottom. And perhaps what bothers me the most is that Jon sees Richie as a basket case. |
Dunno why some fans think that by freedom RS meant working like crazy on his solo stuff and touring the world like he did with BJ but this time as a singer? Maybe he just wanted to do the same thing that JBJ is doing now: releasing stuff every four years and do a few gigs here and there with plenty of time in between? He did release RSO stuff so it's not like he did nothing. Whether it's good or not it's a matter of taste. Same with BJ current music. Each to their own.
And why should JBJ bring up Richie's problems just now when so much time has passed and the band allegedly moved on, releasing an album that has nothing to do with that unlike THINFS? And every time when JBJ opens his mouth, it's just the same string of insults? Is it about getting even now? Repeating this stuff again and again for what? Can't you see how wrong it is? Besides I've observed a weird thing in the fandom. Every time you bring up *facts* about Jon like his shot voice, heavy political involvement, or annoying wine promotion, some fans attack you for not being the real fan of Bon Jovi or being merely a Richie fan. Well, Bon Jovi is no more. It's Jon's solo vehicle with Shanks being his right arm now. The real band died many years ago. It's not nostalgia when you watch the old vids on youtube. THAT was the real thing. |
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Doesn't mean Jon hasn't seen one of his awkward videos or got some condition update from a mutual acquaintance. I don't expect Jon to say "I ran into Joe Dirt our A&R Executive guy and he said Richie looked wasted ". I believe very strong that Jon is still very aware of Richie's current condition. They are public figures. Sent from my SM-A015V using Tapatalk |
Aloha !
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But to play the devil's advocate; according to your schedule Richie still had half of 2008 off. Half of 2011 off. Spread out over just 3 years he's had a full year to get his head straight. There's a lot of heavier addicts who've a lot less time and financial means to get their shit sorted. Quote:
It was Richie who mentioned he wanted more creative freedom. Richie who said he wanted to be a front man. No one expected him to go on a 100 date tour but surely everyone expected him to release more than just the 10 songs? Bon Jovi does more in half a year than Richie does in 7. Surely that's supposed to be the other way around if all you've done is complain about your lack of freedom? Quote:
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Salaam Aleikum, Sebastiaan |
OK, defend it as much as you want. It fkn stinks to talk about a former friend like that no matter how long after the breakup or how tempting it is to goose things up in the media. I'd hate to have 'friends' like that. But yeah, we're talking about BIG egos here, no friends. And an album to promote. Thanks for a very insightful discussion. You learn every day after all. I've certainly learnt a few things today.
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Aloha !
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Salaam Aleikum, Sebastiaan |
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And Jon has been taking the high ground for years. So what, Jon took a jab and called out the truth. If Richie's feelings aren't hurt, yours shouldn't be either. Sent from my SM-A015V using Tapatalk |
You seriously think it's OK for Jon to say that again and again because this is how things work? Do you think it's fair with Jon having the band and most of the fanbase behind? Don't you think that RS is like an indie artist now, living a very low key life and enjoying his life, not interfering with the Machine at all for years now? I haven't denied anything Jon's said about him. I just hate the way Jon talks about him and puts all the blame on him. But that's something you choose to ignore and I feel like I need to explain myself every time bc the message doesn't get across. Whatever.
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Most of the time, it's brought up my reporters and not just Jon, so he is simply answering a question. Now, he is a lot more open about it. That happens. Back in 2013, the tour was still on. It was probably easier for Jon to just say he didn't show up so it didn't distract the tour and also wasn't going to be brought up as much if he said what he's saying now. 7 years on, maybe Jon has just moved on from saying the same thing and has had time to get stuff off his chest a bit more. Richie has said some stuff in the past that probably rubbed Jon up the wrong way. It happens. https://youtu.be/ZaD6oFXX8q0 - You can already tell here that Richie's heart isn't in the band. He didn't want to come back early. You can see that as much as I can. But speak up. If he turned round and said no from the start, who knows what position we'd be in now. As stated by Seb, Richie certainly had more time off the road being in and out of rehab and doing whatever he was doing than anyone else in the band. Let's face it, we are all bored of it. Of course we are BUT it will be spoken about. Not just now but in many years ahead. It's a huge thing to happen in the bands history. As I mentioned further up, it's probably easier for Jon to stay stuff now than it was a few years back. Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk |
I'm still not OK with that. And dunno if Richie doesn't care or not. I take it personally. I have friends too and I know words hurt. J doesn't sound like a person who truly forgave or moved on. Seriously, I don't wanna read about it in every interview now. J should drink some HW and chill out. And shut up before he says even more and it will be too late to apologize because you can take only so much.
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