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I'm still just dying to know what was deleted!
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Check your messages, Beaky.
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He didn't show to Sunday rehearsal, which was, apparently, not planned until the night before. He showed up for the planned Monday rehearsal. |
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I kind of agree with the possibility Beaky posted about Richie being pissed that he wasn't singing one of his Aftermath songs in concert. He said in multiple interviews leading up to the tour that Jon was going to let him sing a song. He also said that as a solo offering on an independent label that there was no end to the timeline in terms of promoting it (meaning that the fact that there hadn't been a hit didn't mean it was over). If he had been able to play a song in concert, it could have presented an opportunity for further interest. I don't see why he couldn't have played one of his songs. Jon likes/needs to take a break in concert and Richie would assume for 5 minutes the burden and/or the glory of the outcome in terms of audience attention.
I am also annoyed that Jon talks so much about the band taking "secrets to the grave" when it is he that in the WWWB documentary stated that Tico had been a mean drunk who caused a lot of problems; in old interviews he said that Alec had been using/abusing during tours and most recently that Richie had missed a rehearsal in London. Why did he have to announce any of that to the world at large? |
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another tense moment, at the BBC show in January when the power is out before LOAP :
http://youtu.be/_EvICwtmqvM?t=43m9s |
I do also agree with Beaky that there might be legal issues which prevent either Richie or Jon or the band from saying anything and Richie from doing anything. I think it is more than just respecting privacy. However, they are going to have to announce something soon since the break between legs of the tour is short. May 7th is just around the corner.
If Richie left the tour over the scenario described by Beaky and is in negotiations with Jon about the future, it is a tense time for the band. Jon pretending to have a great time on stage shows that he is a better actor than we give him credit for! Looking forward to watching the stream tonight. |
So we're back to Jon and Richie fell out?
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Let's take a moment to appreciate that a 2 seconds video of Richie driving his daughter to school made us go back to ''Jon and Richie are fighting''.
Though tbh, that theory really is what makes the most sense as of now. The fact that he is fine/not in rehab and that a familly issue is unlikely doesn't leave much possibilities. |
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But I dunno if I think that - they've all said countless times, they have no reason to break up. And I certainly don't believe it's over money. |
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I don't know about the rest of you, I'm just trying to help get this thread to 200 pages and 2,000 posts! :D
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I honestly DO think that video by Ava is contrived. Richie knows Twitter by now, he knows social media or he at least has people around him who do. Everyone involved in this, knows someone who can work a MacBook and can get on a social media listening tool and search for trends, tags and see what Bon Jovi fans are talking about. What have we been talking about? (Besides Touch The Winky) - Richie is in rehab, he's fallen off the wagon etc etc... Jon is standing by him. Well, what if Jon is simply standing by a contract and Richie isn't? What if Richie can't make statements, can't answer questions on Twitter and can't contractually do anything with the videos his fans have sent in because he's in breach? So Jon is on Ellen yesterday, telling everyone it's a personal issue and Richie is the only one who can resolve it and he's still my guitar player and to be fair to Jon, he's right... as I say, he hasn't changed the game, it's always been the same. But Richie's had it up to here. So Ava (don't feel to bad for her, btw, she could always make her social media posts private if she wanted) flashes the camera at Daddy the very next day... and BOOM, the fans pick it up. It makes us question the 'truth' we've been told. I think this is what Richie wanted. If not, let's not be silly, he'd have said 'don't post that, people will go nuts.' You can't judge Richie and Ava in the same way you judge you and your kids; this family unit knows the media, knows social media and knows the press... |
This also makes sense given that Richie didn't personally call Jon in Calgary; if they were such friends and brothers and the issue was health-related, he would have made a personal call. Richie was doing fine and playing fine and tweeting a lot including "the tour resumes on Tuesday, on the move again." The mysterious tweets about "Forgiveness Street" and "doesn't Easter make you feel Born Again" take on new meanings with this scenario of Richie falling out with Jon.
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I just want to say that, no matter what happens, this thread has been a true gem.
I have absolutely no stake in this outcome- as far as I'm concerned this band is in free-fall and it would be merciful for us all if they just broke up. I will say I can't see how this isn't some sort of spat between Jon and Richie. Otherwise we obviously would have been told SOMETHING by SOMEONE official. I mean if booze, drugs, and criminal activity are not in the picture, what kind of 'personal trouble' would it be that no one can publicly explain it? No, the gag order on Richie and Jon being deliberately vague to put pressure on Richie makes a lot of sense. They're both waiting for the other to blink: Jon is hoping Richie will either cave and come back or quit (thus keeping Jon's hands clean), and Richie is hoping Jon caves into negotiating. Personally I think the chance is remote that Jon would cave to any demands that Richie might have; he's just not the type of dude to compromise. Richie should probably just have the balls to quit. |
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So basically we are all back to square one. Jon and Richie fighting. We could have just cut out 190 pages of this thread!! The only thing I question and which is what everyone else is question, is why no certain date of when Richie will return. On the 3rd April when the statement was released that Richie wasn't performing, they said this leg. Very simple. Cut and dry. Now no one is even saying that. So it went from this leg of the tour, to Richie is still a member of the band. Jon could have said on Ellen. It's a personal matter, his still a member of the band but he just couldn't do this leg of the tour but come next leg, he will be there. Then they wonder why the fans are worried and getting up in arms. |
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"Personal reasons" could be quite simple as Richie's heart not being in this tour.
Jon admitted that he lied to the band about taking the year off. Tico told him no and I'm sure there's studio musicians on half the album (could be all with Richie coming in to do solos and backing vox). Even during/after last tour they were almost all saying the band needed to go away for awhile to make the fans miss them. I can see him being on break for Easter in Hawaii, getting ready to go back out and just saying to himself 'I don't need to do this' (especially since Phil X has filled in before). If it's true, it's a bad move to make day-of and screws the fans and the rest of the band, but it's something I can see happening even without a big blowout like TMZ was reporting. If it was a family emergency, I think they would've said "family emergency." If it was rehab, I think they would've said "rehab" (just like before). If my scenario is true, that truly is "personal reasons" for being absent from the tour. Whatever it is, however, I think the whole organization is a joke in the way they've handled this and almost everything else for the past 5-10 years. |
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Richie always comes across the best during interviews/live performances. Jon on the other hand oozes ego and feels he's entitled to lots of respect. He goes on about how successful they are as if he needs to keep convincing himself that the band still needs to be around. All I can say is blame Taylor Swift. :D |
In the past few pages there has been some really good and sensible summising of the facts, and I have changed my mind and now believe its a big fall out.
on one hand you have Jon who wants it his way or there is no way, then you have Richie who is captain cool and chilled out. I think the whole BON JOVI business machine has broken down, at a fork in the road......one way is the tightly run business model where everything has a place and is costed,timed and clinically produced right down to the minute details..........and the other way is to become a band again with a heart and soul, that would go out busking in the street and be a brotherhood that are FOUR equals, not just one ruling the others, and leaving all the logistics,costs and organisation to managers etc etc, and just concentrating on the MUSIC and performing...and dare I say WRITING thier own songs, and performing on the actual release........ If indeed the bust up is the truth and I do think its becoming more obvious it is.......I feel badly let down by Jon and his machine..and no longer see Richie as the bad man, he is a music man first and foremost, where as Jon has turned into a corparate man, whilst he can be a music man for those 2-3 hours on stage, off stage he is as we all know him, The CEO of a big company!!! certainly not the ROCKSTAR we all used to know...looking like a sad day for al of us loyal fans..... |
Just got to watch some of the clips posted here.
Am I the only one missing the supposed tension? Neither the Hyde Park Press Conference or the BBC show seem particularly tense to me at all nor do Jon's actions or reactions seem dismissive of Richie. If anyone is reading into Ava's clip that Richie looks unhappy, then you're reading too much into it. It's a second or two of a man driving a car. He doesn't look particularly unhappy, just like he trying to drive. Unless he was in tears, drunk or hyterical, it would be impossible to read anything into such a clip. He was none of those things. Beaky's analysis is very well put together and plausible. Personally, I still think this is what it says on the tin and Richie will be back. We'll laugh about it in months to come - "Remember when we all thought Richie had left. Remember the 200 page thread. God some of us lost the run of ourselves." It is a fact though that this has been handled dreadfully. Whether that's Jon's fault or Richie's fault (it will be one of them) is impossible to say but they've made an absolute mickey of it. |
there has been tension for ages, in any appearance on TV they have not been the Dynamic duo for a long time. Dont get me wrong I hope to god I AM WRONG, but take a look at the SANDY benefit concert, yes Richie played well but he barely looks at Jon!!!! perhaps Richie has just had the balls to say enough is enough....Im ouuta here for a while.
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Looks like the personal matter was the launch of his new Australian cosmetics company!
http://www.sambora.com.au/ |
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Having seen Richie in WWWB, I'd be surprised if he has bailed in some ways. I thought he came across as completely spineless in it. Then again, that's me mainly taking one comment in isolation and drawing a conclusion from it. I'd call that ironic but I'd be afraid I'll draw Iceman on me and we'll turn this into a 300 page thread by Saturday all on our own. :-) |
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I personally think the vibe between them two was the best its been at the start of the WAN tour. You could see them on stage and in the pictures, they were good together. I've seen pics of backstage on Jon's birthday, 2nd March and Richie is there with Jon and family, all cool. So it must be a pretty big fight, if they are fighting, for Richie to up and leave the tour. |
The shift in theory back to Jon/Richie problems since Ava's video was posted makes sense, but I'm going to play devil's advocate here...
1. In 2007 Richie's stint in "rehab" was actually just a one week detox at a hospital in LA. The announcement of him not touring this leg was on April 2, a little over 3 weeks ago. He could have just entered the same type of 7 day detox program followed by therapy, which would explain him being around and available to drive Ava to school today. 2. We know from past history time off for Richie leads to trouble. When he entered rehab in 2011 it was at the end of a one month break from the road. April 2 of this year was the end of a 2 week break from the road. Not the month long bender requiring a 30 day rehab stint, but a couple of weeks hitting the bottle warranting a 7 day detox. At 1:15 he even admits being on the road isn't the problem, it's time off that is the problem. 3. The fact that Matt has insisted that the TMZ article is completely off with this one, explicitly said Jon and Richie are not fighting, said it's up to Richie to make an official statement and he "WILL be back on the road" squashes the whole gag order theory. I know Matt is theoretically a nobody, but he still works for the organization and cannot make statements like that (whether they be true or false) if there is some sort of take our secrets to the grave clause. He would simply say "personal reasons" and leave it at that, not reassure his twitter followers that the fighting rumors are bullshit and that he'll be back for the European shows. Again, the situation could very well be as Beaky has suggested, but I'm not so sure alcohol being the reason can be ruled out. |
I think an album where Richie took the reigns over Jon would sound really epic but I doubt that would ever really happen.
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