Kinda, but I always felt that Jersey was a much harder record than Slippery.

New Jersey is a different type of monster. You could say Born to be my baby and maybe Stick to your guns were written in a Slippery mood/mode, but the record is very different in my opinion.

I think there's a lot to be said about the process and what we do and don't know. The amount of songs we got for THINFS tells me they went through a much more extensive pre-production/demo'ing process and it didn't really lead to a more cohesive, well rounded album. I'm not sure how to "fix" the problem but both camps are putting out music they think the most amount of people will like when I'd rather they go introspective, admit it won't sell and just do what they like. And if they are just doing it for the sake of doing it, that's not enough, if that makes sense?

Whelp we've hit the stage where All That Glitters is my favourite of the 4.

That's an interesting discussion about making Stranger II or Slippery II. That discussion is nothing new, we're having it for at least 20 years - I'd even go that far to say it's there right after Slippery went through the roof.
Before the release of 2020 we discussed the same while guessing which direction the band will take with the new record and if there's still one hit left in Jon.
Especially with the discussion whether Jon has one more hit in his pen - and I think one can very well transfer it to writing a great album again - I was thinking if it's even possible for a band that's been that long around like Bon Jovi are, to have another song or another record that satifies the fans' desire for another Slippery (or in Richie's case another Stranger).
To start with my personal answer right away: I don't think so! It's impossible.
If you look at those bands that are as long around as Bon Jovi are (or even longer)...The Rolling Stones, U2, Bruce, ACDC...all of their hits, all of their hit records are the old ones. When you go to a Stones show I never heard anyone saying "A Bigger Bang was such a masterpiece, I hope they're playing Sweet Neo Con" or going to Bruce saying "Gee, Wrecking Ball is awesome, I hope he's doing the full album." That doesn't happen. The old bands are having hit records because they have the fanbase, they have a fanbase hoping for a new classic, they have the reputation so casuals buy their records and they have the quality which makes their albums good enough to give them a listen and that are not bad enough to be that disappointed to never return again (at least for the most part of the listeners).
I think everyone hopes that their favourite band accomplishes to rewrite that one big record again. But due to that hope it isn't even possible for the band to do so. We want another Slippery or another New Jersey or another Keep The Faith or another These Days. But the album isn't allowed to be a copy of those records, the songs aren't allowed to sound the same as those old songs, the lyrics aren't allowed to be the same as on those records. So I'm wondering: How has a new 2021-Slippery, a 2021-Born To Run, a 2021-Sticky Fingers or a 2021-Back in Black have to sound to make it through the fans' quality management? I don't know. With Keep The Faith and These Days the band lost a lot of die-hards that loved Slippery and New Jersey. The fans that were gained with Crush love both periods. People come, people go.
How can one of those old bands have another hit which is on the same level as Prayer, as Satisfaction, as Highway To Hell or as Dancing In The Dark?
With Blood In The Water we got a song that was highly praised. But soon after came the first comments saying "it's the similiar melody to Dry County which makes it so likeable, despite that it's the same mediocre song like the last 20 years."
So I think it isn't a coincidence that all the big hit singles of those old bands are from a long time ago. Of course every once in a while one of those new singles made it to the top. The Stones most recently made it with Ghost Town. But I think we all agree that this song never will be considered playing in the same league as Satisfaction, Jumpin' Jack Flash or Brown Sugar do.

So I think it's the natural run of time. You hit it big, you have those big records. If you're lucky you even have those big hits and big records for a certain period of time. But the longer you stay, the harder it gets to repeat those records which made you that big. Failing is inevitable because you can't repeat such special things. It's like having the first date with the love of your life in your favourite amusement park. It's the most beautiful day in your life. And everytime you come back with her to that park you want to make it that special again. But it never will be the same feeling again. Because times change, situation change, people change, moments change, memories change. It is what it is.

Holy hell, this is brilliantly put.

They're in such a lose/lose position and for as many people want the introspective, soulful lyrics of These Days, there's another group that want that devil-may-care rocking attitude of the 80's. How can a band fill both those groups while being true to themselves but not being a parody of themselves. I think you have it bang on.

Agreed, great post Faceman

Great post.

I think it also boils down to: What does an artist do well, and what do they like to do? Jon had a great voice for the music they did in the 80s, and he enjoyed making party anthems. In the 90s, the focus shifted. He still had a great voice for that kind of music; arguably, the shift to deeper vocals in the 90s was actually a sound decision considering both the musical climate as well as his vocal development.

But you can't always strike gold, with the things you can do well, the things you want to do and the things that resonate with the cultural landscape being in perfect alignment.

Plus, in case of Bon Jovi: The changing tastes of the band members! I would argue that Jon and Richie were on the very same page musically in the 80s, or at least complemented each other brilliantly. They changed - not neccessarily in the same direction. The music they made became more of a compromise as a result. The strengths of everybody were not at the forefront as much anymore.

Bon Jovi in 2021 would need to take into account the limits of Jon's vocal, the expectations of the fans, the things the general public (who has not been a fan for 15+ years) would appreciate, the things the band can write, the things the band WANTS to perform... account for all that. It is not even just about whether the FANS want a Slippery or a These Days. They alone wouldn't make either a hit. But the band would also need to be able to deliver, and it would need to resonate as well. Slippery was not just a good record in a vacuum, it was a hit record. That changes the nature of the album.

Do you know what he is saying in these 2 new snippets ?
His pronunciation is not clear for me.
Thanks:D

Well said. It's very nuanced and important to remember that our side of the sandbox liking doesn't mean it'll be a popular hit. If anything it stands to reason the opposite. If they recreate an old sound they're pandering, if they go in a new direction they're trend chasing.

All they can really do is keep going out and playing the hits. I commend them for at least playing the new songs live but let's see if they can pull it off without the "This was a number one album everyone loved" dog and pony show.

Good to see varied analysis from everyone here. Offering my three cents:

1) First & Foremost, I would want Richie to stay true to who he is--- A Guitar Player. One isn't expecting long instrumental passages but songs devoid of an audible guitar line is what pissed off a lot of fans since 2000, I bet.
None of the fan favourites have busy instrumentation, but they all have capable instrumentation. So, a song which has compressed drums annd percussion drowning out the rest is undesirable. As sensational as the Next 100 years solo is, it is about 3dB too quiet compared to wall of noise around it. "These Days" is obviously the go to example of an album where there is no redundant extraneous sounds, everything is calculated yet creative. Every rhythm lick is nuanced and says something, instead of a boring (modern) strum on the chord. The gist is that I'd want a "guitar present" album . I'm sure I'm not alone in this.

2) Lyrics. Hmm. Somebody mentioned Richie was never very gifted in that regard. Clearly, Richie isn't a verbose guy and his twitter vocabulary is pretty shockingly deficient. "Shelter, food & sex is what we need" is cringey, while every line on "You can only get so high" is moving. He does hit or miss, a lot like Jon. I'd say Jon has higher highs and lower lows.

3) RSO was comfy and bland. Nothing good comes out of a well rested artist who has no walls to scale. I hope Orianthi has had no input in his music. Her lyrical chops are worse than an eight grader going through her first imaginary break up.
I've said it before but I'd love Richie to rope in some vocalists for a couple of songs. Even a guitarist or two. He did have Clapton on his first outing and that was terrific. All these things require effort and creative combat, but often results in memorable output.

4) The old artist trying to reclaim the past glory debate is nothing new but I think the point is that fans often want the artist to quit replicating the current trends rather than aping their finest hour. To quote Kirk Hammett (when Metallica decided to have a solo free album in 2003's St.Anger): "I think it's bullshit, to cater to the current trend that says no guitar solos. If we're doing that then we are dating this music to this very year".
The current trend in music is dreadful-- naive, entitled and misguided lyricism; mistake free, individuality free music; A very good case in point is Greta Van Fleet. Talented boys with a lot of potential who became media darlings for basically nothing and now their 2nd record is just a shining example of forgettable songwriting. It is up to the artist to carve a conducive environment for music, which often translates to an environment that's actually not conducive to creating music. Conflict and chaos is more interesting than a well oiled machine going about its job one more time.

Lot of really valid points (though not to nitpick, Richie didn't write Weathering the Storm, if I recall correctly that was a collaboration with Elton John's right hand man Bernie Taupin who wrote all the lyrics and Richie did the music)

BUT I completely agree about You Can Only Get So High. Those verses are everything J+R claim they are doing when they open up to show the hurt and the chip on their shoulder when really they're just giving us banal cliches about reaching for the skies. "Downed seven Tylenols for breakfast" "Empty bottle preach the gospel". If enough effort is taken lyrically as there was in that one song I don't think we would be having this discussion. My biggest gripe with the band 2000 forward (and I'm a broken record on this) is the amount of tired empty cliches. They're both really guilty of it and it makes everything feel lazier.

Yep, agree with a lot except about Bernie’s lyrics lol...also:
- Have you hear Orianthi’s latest? I’m not a fan, but it has shit loads of guitar and rock on it. After listening to the snippets, it’s seems to me like Richie’s the problem, not Ori

You're a broken record on actually using the term "broken record" [emoji23]

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HAHAHA Fair enough! I'll switch it up.

:)

While you're thinking about that... I'm trying to work out the lyrics, and my phone is starting to sound kinda like a broken record. So could you maybe lend a hand??? Your ears seem to work better than mine these days...

Please and thank you. :)

Here's what I have so far...


PAIN
Pain, pain, pain
Where there once was a heart
Sing it again, sing it again.
Pain, pain, pain
Where there once was a heart
Loving you was just a losing game, baby, oh

It feels like dying, yes, it feels like dying inside

Pain, pain, pain
Where there once was a heart
Sing it again, sing it again, sing it again.
Pain, pain, pain
Where there once was a heart
I thought we had it all; but you threw it away, darlin'
I cried, I cried, I cried 10 million tears for you, baby.



ALL THAT GLITTERS
Hey, you beautiful sinners
Your little precious hearts can't be bought or sold
Hey, when you're chasing down your rainbows
Remember to remember all that glitters ain't gold
Remember to remember all that glitters ain't gold

Born daddy's little girl (???) raking round the world
Poor rotten attitude, goodbye gratitude
(??), count the stars and pray for more
Guess (Can't say?) it's crazy, you might be insane, well...
You think (???) but trying not to kill yourself
The poorest and the richest
Still (soon?) need an ambulance

The rest is bang on but here's what I hear:

Can't fix crazy, you might be a...
You think your heart....? but trying not to kid yourself
The poorest and the richest
Still need an ambulance

Even then I'm not totally sure. And after listening to this 3000 times no one can convince me Richie wasn't the driving force in writing No Apologies.

I love the two new snippets. Richie sounds passionate. About the production, well ... it's something similar to the RSO songs that was also produced by Bob Rock, it could be better, but despite that, it sounds refreshing to me, especially the latest snippet, so I don't dislike it.

Always l liked Take Me, I Don't Want To Have To Need You Now, Forever all the Way ... So I'm quite interested in this. Hearing Richie sing something new excites me. About the guitars, I can only say, these four snippets sounds great man, much better than guitars on the last Jovi records.

https://youtu.be/aNVle0R9CCI

https://youtu.be/xziM6Iu9SwU


https://twitter.com/orianthi/status/...179346436?s=21


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Pain kinda grew on me. Nothing else stands out, through.

I think it could be a good song :)

I noticed yesterday that Undiscovered Soul on Apple Music has been replaced by the ‘Expanded edition’. At first I just thought it was a few extra tracks but then I noticed that Steven Tyler’s harmonica track has been removed from If God Was a Woman - anyone know the story behind this?

Yeah that sounds like it was replaced by the early version released in Japan that had some lyrical and production differences. Does All That Really Matters start with a different line as well?

Matt you’re a goddamn encyclopaedia. Yes, it does have a slightly different opening line. In It For Love seems to have a little bit more guitar in the outro but overall production isn’t as good. The loss of the harmonic on If God Was a Woman is a big one

Hahahaha I can't express how much disposable information is in my head.

I don't know much more about this version but reading up a little it came out in 1997 with the final worldwide version in 1998. Anyone know anything more?

I seem to remember that the Japanese label wanted the album early. I think Richie was doing some sort of promo over there regarding a duet he did with a Japanese artist (the song was called Forever, but the name of the artist escapes me) and they wanted to capitalise on the exposure of that.

The album wasn't finished so Richie gave them an early, unfinished mix to release. I always thought it was a strange thing to do - maybe release a few songs but not the whole album. Anyways, I guess it was before the days of internet piracy, but imports were widely available a long time before the final version was released in the rest of the world.

Edit: Artist was Takashi Sorimach

https://youtu.be/theZxX3pEWs

I heard that the album had leaked in Japan so they rush released it in the unfinished state.

I was aware of the earlier Japan release, but not that it was simply unfinished, and this is the first time I am hearing this track! Man I love Richie's clean playing. That intro alone is superb. Overall this sounds quite a bit like Undiscovered Soul, the track, no? Do we know who wrote and produced it, and where? Was the base track just from the Undiscovered Soul sessions?

Thanks for the link and the backstory!

Spotify says it was written by Takashi Sorimachi; but it doesn't give the producer or location.

Could have been, not sure. Don't remember any leaks of it back then, but I guess pre-internet they didn't spead as instantly as they do now

Yes, the track did always remind me quite a bit of Undiscovered Soul.

https://scontent.ftru2-2.fna.fbcdn.n...d4&oe=60D2979D
https://www.facebook.com/normansrare...0572810050701/

seems to be enjoying himself anyway [emoji23]

https://twitter.com/TheRealSambora/s...744899072?s=19

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That dude lost his mind. When I see this weird shit, it just reminds me that he's never getting back into that band.

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I think Richie bought the JBJ membership too... and he's getting sick of waiting that he lost his mind...

Why on earth would you post a video like that?


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True. Richie is still waiting to hear Cadillac man hahaha.


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You say that like he wants back in the band. Nothing I've seen or heard from him suggests anything of the sort.

The guy is having fun at his beachside home and enjoying the listening to the Stones. How is that "losing your mind"? Granted, I maybe wouldn't have posted this to social media, but it's clear that Richie just doesn't give a shit anymore and is enjoying life. Good on him. I'd rather this than the pretentious uptight shit we get from Jon constantly, but that's just me.

Tell me how that Richie Sambora is any different to this one...

https://youtu.be/94ayZRu_cT4

Or this one...

https://youtu.be/E8KCi8NVXB8?t=19

It's one thing to chill by your beach house and another thing to post a video like this.

Richie does his Trump impersonations and then posts a video of behavior that's even more odd.

The dude is competely wacked out of his mind. He's gone.

I dont know what hes going for but no one watching this thinks it's cool, funny, or legendary.

He cant handle returning to a structured band like Bon Jovi and Jon would never take him back even if he wanted to.

There is no resurrecting them. Sad that this is what Richie turned into.

I never noticed how much Labor of Love sounds like this.