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heart&dagger 04-30-2013 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mysterytrain (Post 1125589)
I've been puzzling over all of the theories I've seen/discussed/read regarding the Richie situation, and I've come up with an idea to add to the mix. As a big Richie fan, I'd love to be proven wrong about this, but since I have anxiety and emotional codependency issues, myself, I can empathize some, if this scenario has any truth to it.

Basically, I'm wondering if Richie has replaced drinking to cope with stress with fleeing conflict (literally).

The story that made me consider this angle was one I had forgotten: Last year, Richie and Denise Richards were scheduled to present at an awards show. Apparently, they got into an argument, and Richie took off and flew back to L.A., leaving Denise to present the award on her own.

Meanwhile, Richie does his solo tour in Europe, which sold out in pre-sale! He is loved, he is adored. He Tweets enthusiastically after each show. However, the U.S. dates don't fare so well, so he claims illness and cancels most of them, and turns the LA show into a charity show (commendable, of course, but by doing this, he can also take the focus off of himself and what might otherwise be disappointment at not selling to a packed house). Therefore, stress of poor sales averted, even if for only one show.

On Twitter, fans get pissed that he's cancelled so many U.S. shows, and they call him out on it. Eventually, perhaps after being 'attacked' one too many times, Richie sends out a couple of nearly incoherent Tweets. Though I didn't understand quite what he was saying, the tone I got was akin to a cornered, wounded animal, trying to defend itself. However, by the next day, Richie claimed his Twitter account had been hacked, and that we should just ignore the seemingly out-of-character Tweets.

Now, magnify that type of scene, only have Jon as the source of the conflict. Richie gets offended by something, and flees by leaving the tour. Instead of dealing with the conflict, he can hide out for a few weeks, then send a few Tweets to his own Twitter fan base, and then chill and watch his 'Every Road' contest submissions, while, in the very same state of California, his band mates play a show (and just in case they're wondering how he's doing as they prepare to go live, he Tweets he's 'having fun'). No crisis here!

If any of this is true, then it says to me that Richie's coping mechanism is the main problem here: Perhaps he has substituted drinking with running away from stress. Unfortunately, this behavior affects a lot more than the band; it affects his loyal fans, as well. On his part, it points to deeper psychological issues than addiction.

Very well said and in my opinion, spot on.

I just would like to put my two cents worth in...

Your last statement is a light bulb moment, for me, regardless if Richie returns to this tour or not.

I have one or two people in my/our family that cope with stress by doing this very same thing, and one or two that do add alcohol to the mix. Never put 2 and 2 together, especially with one of them, until now. Especially, the stress = flee/flight for many people, whether physically or by using other means, such as alcohol. (excessively)

Richie needs to find a healthy way to deal with this issue, like so many other people do. A positive method vs a negative method, if you will. For example, a lot of people use running and other sports, (other healthier ways), to deal with stress.

Thank you for writing what you wrote, above, for a multitude of reasons.

Richie could use some *true friends* who would help him sort out his demons. All he gets from fans is unconditional adoration. What he needs, is someone that he trusts, that would "get real" with him, treat him like a normal person, so to speak.

In order for that to happen, Richie, has to reach a point where he is open to receiving that input and not taking it as criticism. That is the key, imo.

I always thought a month or so...in rehab was not enough for Richie or for anyone to sort out their issues that led them to drink excessively, anyway.

If Richie is going to succeed at, *anything*, in the future, whether on his own, or with the band, he has to get these psychological issues sorted out, first.

Otherwise, down the road, I feel he is in for a very challenging path, in finding that every road does not lead home to "you" but rather, to ~ "himself", someone he has real issues with, apparently. And, is not yet, willing to face them, instead he is still in the pointing fingers mode.

Even if he goes back on tour, I fear it will just make things worse for him. Anyone that's been touring as long as he has, can put on a great act on stage, but what happens when the show(s) are over (for him)?

It seems that the only person, in his life, at the moment, who is helping to keep R grounded, is Ava. He obviously adores her and does not want to let her down. But, as she grows up, and moves away, more and more, on her own, then what?

I guess, if he found the right woman, he could still have another family, that might help stabilize him? The problem with that, is him finding the "right woman". Someone that could make him face his own demons and support him, give him something to believe in, something to live for, etc.

To fight an addiction, to be comfortable with one's own self, a person needs all the support that they can get. A Rockstar also needs someone to keep them grounded.

Richie does not seem to have that. The other members in the band, do seem to have that. imo, therein lies one of the major differences, between the rest of the band and Richie.

He is not the only person, in history, that has had tremendous talent, but chooses a path of self destruction, as they get older and older, for whatever reason.

It's sad to watch, I love Richie, but that is not what he needs to hear. Unfortunately, at this time, he is not willing to hear anything else.

Again, thank you to ~ Mysterytrain. You have (obviously) given me a lot to think about, both in regards to Richie and in regards to my/our own family.

Gabriel Shoes 04-30-2013 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DestinationJovi (Post 1125553)
Are you forgetting Phil is a session musician? He'll play whatever music style the artist who hires him wants!

You're right, I guess he played with Kelly Clarkson... not a problem work with Bon Jovi.

MrNickel 04-30-2013 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beaky (Post 1125664)
Have to say, don't agree with this at all... there is plenty of Richie in that vid. Also, I think they purposefully picked a shot of Phil X with his back to the camera because they are JUST stupid enough to think we wouldn't be able to tell it was him.

I don't think the video would be much different if Richie had been ever-present on this tour...

Yeah I must agree. There is a whole section in the middle that just shows Jon and Richie together and is very prominent.

JoviJovi 04-30-2013 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabriel Shoes (Post 1125670)
You're right, I guess he played with Kelly Clarkson... not a problem work with Bon Jovi.

He's played on a lot more than Kelly Clarkson. I don't even really like him for some reason, but I won't take away the fact that he's pretty accomplished as a session guy. And let's face it, Kelly Clarkson is more rock and roll than Bon Jovi is these days.

jovigirloz 04-30-2013 02:36 PM

one theory we haven't explored... he is addicted to playing Candy Crush Saga and can't get past those stupid chocolate blocks...

heart&dagger 04-30-2013 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beaky (Post 1125664)
Have to say, don't agree with this at all... there is plenty of Richie in that vid. Also, I think they purposefully picked a shot of Phil X with his back to the camera because they are JUST stupid enough to think we wouldn't be able to tell it was him.

I don't think the video would be much different if Richie had been ever-present on this tour...

By putting in the part at the end, where one sees Phil X with his back to the camera, shows that Richie was not willing to *finish* this vid. That *could be* a very telling sign, of sorts.

steel_horse75 04-30-2013 02:40 PM

Quote:

JDJovi - Take away What's Left of Me and the album is a shocker.
Sorry cant agree with that at all. Its their most consistant album since These Days - I only dislike Army Of One and Amen. Maybe its my age or Ive come to terms with the fact that theres not another SWW or NJ standard album in them anymore but I really like it. A lot. But thats a discussion for another thread!

As much as I enjoy the album and will be seeing them on 05/07/13 I have said since they announced the album and tour that it is way too soon.

I would like to have seen them back in late 2015. I just think the fans need a break as theres been too much released and touring in the last 7 years but I also feel the band need a break from themselves.

bonjovi90 04-30-2013 05:10 PM

On a German concert promo magazine there is only a picture of Jon, Dave and Tico printed and it says that Phil X is gonna fill in for the rest of the tour. No idea whether they got more detailed information or just picked up the wide-spread news we already have.

aljo 04-30-2013 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karlj (Post 1125650)

2. Conflict of interests - I'm surprised Jon hasn't let him sing 'Every Road' or a solo track at a Jovi gig - Come On - one song out of 24/25 songs a night - giving him an hand up with his album - He can't sell in his own country so playing a solo track to 15,000 fans a night would lift his head - and I'm sorry but it would n't arm 'wHAT aBOUT nOW' as most fans have already bought it ...... - I'd be mighty pissed if I'd put all my energy into something and then have a friend/band mate VETO putting a track in the set ......
KJ

I'm surprised also. I think it would really boost Richie's ego a bit if he was able to sing one of his own songs. It certainly wouldn't hurt the rest of the setlist and would make Richie feel good. Can't come up with any good reason why he shouldn't be able to sing one song. And don't tell me Jon wants to separate the band album from the solo album, letting him sing one song wouldn't kill him.

TheseDaysEra 04-30-2013 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bonjovi90 (Post 1125697)
On a German concert promo magazine there is only a picture of Jon, Dave and Tico printed and it says that Phil X is gonna fill in for the rest of the tour. No idea whether they got more detailed information or just picked up the wide-spread news we already have.

wow.. if this is true than that's it. We won't see him again on this tour. Meaning I won't bother buying a ticket for the concert in Lisbon. **** it. I don't care whose fault it is that Richie has left the tour. All I know is that I don't wanna see Bon Jovi in crutches. I'll only pay to see Jon, Richie, David and Tico.

Anyways, where did you see this ? can you scan it and post it here ?

Stranger11 04-30-2013 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heart†1125674
By putting in the part at the end, where one sees Phil X with his back to the camera, shows that Richie was not willing to *finish* this vid. That *could be* a very telling sign, of sorts.

I would be surprised if Richie even knew what the 2nd single will be let alone what kind of video would be done for it.

The backstage scenes were obviously shot during this leg when Richie wasn´t present. Personally I was surprised how many times he was shown.

Phil X is only filmed with his back to camera you can´t even see his face.

jdanielross 04-30-2013 05:22 PM

Jon has talked in the past about how songs that are "let's go to the bathroom/get a beer" songs are unfavorable to him because it's so hard to get the crowd back after those. I can see him denying RS a solo song based on that. RS only did Homebound Train on the last tour for a few of the first dates and then moved to the fan-friendly LYHOM (though his solo version sucked, IMO. Truthfully, the RS solo IBTFY is far superior to any other version live ... so I don't mind him having to stick to that one in his solo spot).

On Phil X ... he's on the upcoming Scott Stapp solo album that's being recorded now so I don't think he has any objections to playing for almost anyone who will pay him.

TheseDaysEra 04-30-2013 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdanielross (Post 1125706)
Jon has talked in the past about how songs that are "let's go to the bathroom/get a beer" songs are unfavorable to him because it's so hard to get the crowd back after those. I can see him denying RS a solo song based on that. RS only did Homebound Train on the last tour for a few of the first dates and then moved to the fan-friendly LYHOM (though his solo version sucked, IMO. Truthfully, the RS solo IBTFY is far superior to any other version live ... so I don't mind him having to stick to that one in his solo spot).

On Phil X ... he's on the upcoming Scott Stapp solo album that's being recorded now so I don't think he has any objections to playing for almost anyone who will pay him.

I hate to be THAT guy but.. people only get up from their seats to grab a beer or go to the bathroom in the middle of a gig in North America. In Europe, if you paid to see a concert, you WATCH the whole damn thing, period.

Stranger11 04-30-2013 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aljo (Post 1125698)
I'm surprised also. I think it would really boost Richie's ego a bit if he was able to sing one of his own songs. It certainly wouldn't hurt the rest of the setlist and would make Richie feel good. Can't come up with any good reason why he shouldn't be able to sing one song. And don't tell me Jon wants to separate the band album from the solo album, letting him sing one song wouldn't kill him.

But when you look at the Band history the only Solo song that Richie ever sang at a BJ concert was Stranger in this town - he never did anything from Undiscovered Soul.

So what would be the big change now and why should Richie be surprised if Jon may changed his mind or it wasn´t even planned for the US leg. Maybe it was planned for Europe since Every road was a Bonus track on the European edition.

But since even the "What about now" record is poorly represented so far, nothing else shocks me setlist-wise.

RonJovi 04-30-2013 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheseDaysEra (Post 1125707)
I hate to be THAT guy but.. people only get up from their seats to grab a beer or go to the bathroom in the middle of a gig in North America. In Europe, if you paid to see a concert, you WATCH the whole damn thing, period.

That isn't true.

In the RDS in 2011, there were literally hundreds of people outside at any given moment.

At Lansdowne in 2003, when Richie did IBTFY, there was a mass exodus for the toilet. Same thing happened when they did Diamond Ring.

jovifan93 04-30-2013 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheseDaysEra (Post 1125707)
I hate to be THAT guy but.. people only get up from their seats to grab a beer or go to the bathroom in the middle of a gig in North America. In Europe, if you paid to see a concert, you WATCH the whole damn thing, period.

Maybe you do, but not everyone... While it's true that I would never go to the bathroom during a show, I did grab a beer or two during the concert many times - nothing wrong with that, though I prefer if the guy with the beer on the back comes around and brings it to me ;-) And friends of mine even went to the bathroom - if you gotta go, you gotta go :-D

Bill23 04-30-2013 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheseDaysEra (Post 1125707)
I hate to be THAT guy but.. people only get up from their seats to grab a beer or go to the bathroom in the middle of a gig in North America. In Europe, if you paid to see a concert, you WATCH the whole damn thing, period.

If you had to listen to Working Man you'd get up for a beer or maybe even go for a walk. Also- Europe (from what I understand) is all GA- no way you could go anywhere I'd imagine. Atleast if you did good luck getting "seat" back.

Mysterytrain 04-30-2013 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heart†1125669
Very well said and in my opinion, spot on.

I just would like to put my two cents worth in...

Your last statement is a light bulb moment, for me, regardless if Richie returns to this tour or not.

I have one or two people in my/our family that cope with stress by doing this very same thing, and one or two that do add alcohol to the mix. Never put 2 and 2 together, especially with one of them, until now. Especially, the stress = flee/flight for many people, whether physically or by using other means, such as alcohol. (excessively)

Richie needs to find a healthy way to deal with this issue, like so many other people do. A positive method vs a negative method, if you will. For example, a lot of people use running and other sports, (other healthier ways), to deal with stress.

Thank you for writing what you wrote, above, for a multitude of reasons.

Richie could use some *true friends* who would help him sort out his demons. All he gets from fans is unconditional adoration. What he needs, is someone that he trusts, that would "get real" with him, treat him like a normal person, so to speak.

In order for that to happen, Richie, has to reach a point where he is open to receiving that input and not taking it as criticism. That is the key, imo.

I always thought a month or so...in rehab was not enough for Richie or for anyone to sort out their issues that led them to drink excessively, anyway.

If Richie is going to succeed at, *anything*, in the future, whether on his own, or with the band, he has to get these psychological issues sorted out, first.

Otherwise, down the road, I feel he is in for a very challenging path, in finding that every road does not lead home to "you" but rather, to ~ "himself", someone he has real issues with, apparently. And, is not yet, willing to face them, instead he is still in the pointing fingers mode.

Even if he goes back on tour, I fear it will just make things worse for him. Anyone that's been touring as long as he has, can put on a great act on stage, but what happens when the show(s) are over (for him)?

It seems that the only person, in his life, at the moment, who is helping to keep R grounded, is Ava. He obviously adores her and does not want to let her down. But, as she grows up, and moves away, more and more, on her own, then what?

I guess, if he found the right woman, he could still have another family, that might help stabilize him? The problem with that, is him finding the "right woman". Someone that could make him face his own demons and support him, give him something to believe in, something to live for, etc.

To fight an addiction, to be comfortable with one's own self, a person needs all the support that they can get. A Rockstar also needs someone to keep them grounded.

Richie does not seem to have that. The other members in the band, do seem to have that. imo, therein lies one of the major differences, between the rest of the band and Richie.

He is not the only person, in history, that has had tremendous talent, but chooses a path of self destruction, as they get older and older, for whatever reason.

It's sad to watch, I love Richie, but that is not what he needs to hear. Unfortunately, at this time, he is not willing to hear anything else.

Again, thank you to ~ Mysterytrain. You have (obviously) given me a lot to think about, both in regards to Richie and in regards to my/our own family.

You're welcome. :) If this idea helps anyone cope in some way, then it's done its job beyond what I expected of it when I posted, which was just that I thought it an idea worth putting 'out there'. I also posted this idea on another forum, and interestingly, got this response from someone who had seen the 'WWWB' documentary at Tribeca, before it was edited to what we see now:

'Jon asked the interviewer who he was going to interview next and Interviewer said Richie. Jon responded you do know if you ask him something he doesn't like he will get up and walk out. Interviewer response I know that that is why i'm interviewing him on a boat.'

This person went on to say Richie is a lot 'darker' than people realize, because he so often gives off the impression that he is the 'jokester' of the band.

Ruggy 04-30-2013 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill23 (Post 1125722)
If you had to listen to Working Man you'd get up for a beer or maybe even go for a walk. Also- Europe (from what I understand) is all GA- no way you could go anywhere I'd imagine. Atleast if you did good luck getting "seat" back.

No, there's Golden and Diamond Circle in Europe.

tigrs99 04-30-2013 06:10 PM

Link to German promoter magazine which says Richie won't be coming over
http://www.eventmagazin.info/
I think story is on page 18

JoviJovi 04-30-2013 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruggy (Post 1125725)
No, there's Golden and Diamond Circle in Europe.

Right, but its standing (i.e. general admission in those areas) so its hard to get back to your spot if you leave

Ruggy 04-30-2013 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoviJovi (Post 1125727)
Right, but its standing (i.e. general admission in those areas) so its hard to get back to your spot if you leave

Got you, thanks.

ezearis 04-30-2013 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheseDaysEra (Post 1125707)
I hate to be THAT guy but.. people only get up from their seats to grab a beer or go to the bathroom in the middle of a gig in North America. In Europe, if you paid to see a concert, you WATCH the whole damn thing, period.

Agree. I've never seen people going for a beer, or water or anything. I don't even go to the bathroom, doesn't matter if I'm peeing myself!

ezearis 04-30-2013 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoviJovi (Post 1125727)
Right, but its standing (i.e. general admission in those areas) so its hard to get back to your spot if you leave

Here it was with seats on the VIP sectors and people of the Vip Platinum (Diamond Circle) went running, the guards couldn't even handle the people, all in front of the stage rocking every song. Nobody tried to go to the stage or anything weird, just good rocking. Seats didn't mattered anymore, because NO ONE was on their seats.

That's how a concert is supposed to be, not with seats and beers.

aljo 04-30-2013 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheseDaysEra (Post 1125707)
I hate to be THAT guy but.. people only get up from their seats to grab a beer or go to the bathroom in the middle of a gig in North America. In Europe, if you paid to see a concert, you WATCH the whole damn thing, period.

I never get up to go to the bathroom or get anything during a concert or a yankee game. I am there the entire time. I'm proud of the fact at last year's bamboozle went without a bathroom break for 12 freaking long hours!

RonJovi 04-30-2013 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill23 (Post 1125722)
If you had to listen to Working Man you'd get up for a beer or maybe even go for a walk. Also- Europe (from what I understand) is all GA- no way you could go anywhere I'd imagine. Atleast if you did good luck getting "seat" back.

Haha too true. If I have to endure that piece of crap, I'll get up for ear-plugs and a big rock to throw at Jon.

How dare he sing "Work for the Working Man" when I'm taking the bones of €200 from my dwindling bank account and putting it in his rock-star pockets that already have hundreds of millions.

If I ever want to be patronised, I've got a bunch of mates that'll do it for free.

Supersonic 04-30-2013 06:23 PM

Aloha !

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonJovi (Post 1125732)
Haha too true. If I have to endure that piece of crap, I'll get up for ear-plugs and a big rock to throw at Jon.

How dare he sing "Work for the Working Man" when I'm taking the bones of €200 from my dwindling bank account and putting it in his rock-star pockets that already have hundreds of millions.

If I ever want to be patronised, I've got a bunch of mates that'll do it for free.

Considering how shows are getting rescheduled to different venues or different dates I think its fair to say Jons working for a lot fewer working man than he was expecting. :p

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

JoviJovi 04-30-2013 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ezearis (Post 1125730)
Here it was with seats on the VIP sectors and people of the Vip Platinum (Diamond Circle) went running, the guards couldn't even handle the people, all in front of the stage rocking every song. Nobody tried to go to the stage or anything weird, just good rocking. Seats didn't mattered anymore, because NO ONE was on their seats.

That's how a concert is supposed to be, not with seats and beers.

I agree, but if there were seats, more people would leave for beer, bathrooms, etc.

bjcrazycpa 04-30-2013 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mysterytrain (Post 1125724)
I also posted this idea on another forum, and interestingly, got this response from someone who had seen the 'WWWB' documentary at Tribeca, before it was edited to what we see now:

'Jon asked the interviewer who he was going to interview next and Interviewer said Richie. Jon responded you do know if you ask him something he doesn't like he will get up and walk out. Interviewer response I know that that is why i'm interviewing him on a boat.'

This person went on to say Richie is a lot 'darker' than people realize, because he so often gives off the impression that he is the 'jokester' of the band.

I do remember in the aired documentary that Richie laughing about being interviewed on the boat but I never quite got the context. I remember when I met Richie (this was back on the HAND tour before he broke his shoulder but after he and Heather had split) and we talked at length about the differences between LA and NJ and I asked him if he'd ever move back to the NJ/NYC area and he said, "oh no darlin way too many demons there". That has stuck with me over the years seeing him go through his ups/downs.

ezearis 04-30-2013 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoviJovi (Post 1125738)
I agree, but if there were seats, more people would leave for beer, bathrooms, etc.

There were seats dude, we just didn't cared and went in front of the stage :p

JoviJovi 04-30-2013 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ezearis (Post 1125742)
There were seats dude, we just didn't cared and went in front of the stage :p

Which is why, for me its better to travel over there to see a few show than it is to stay here in the US to see a bunch of shows.

jovi_jewel 04-30-2013 07:17 PM

Official statement posted on Bonjovi.com that Richie won't be present for Europe and South Africa due to personal issues. I'm trying to be optimistic, but I'm starting to accept my favorite guitarist might be gone for good. I hate that I've never gotten to hear him play live

ezearis 04-30-2013 07:20 PM

He's gone for good, let's face it.

Kryten2340 04-30-2013 07:22 PM

My worst fears confirmed. I don't know why they don't just scrap the rest of the tour.

Chris_Newton 04-30-2013 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jovi_jewel (Post 1125750)
Official statement posted on Bonjovi.com that Richie won't be present for Europe and South Africa due to personal issues. I'm trying to be optimistic, but I'm starting to accept my favorite guitarist might be gone for good. I hate that I've never gotten to hear him play live

well....here is to the next 200 pages on this thread :D

I have to agree though...i think that's it for him...he really needs to come out and say something i feel. Lot of people paid a lot of money to see the band that includes HIM!

Wont stop me from going but i can see why people are pissed

BJ?YesPlease 04-30-2013 07:24 PM

It's now turned into Jon trying to stop the tour from losing money.

Ruggy 04-30-2013 07:25 PM

He's either got some serious debilitating illness, which I sincerely hope not obviously, or he's chucked it /been fired and they don't want to confirm it yet for whatever reason.

Gutted but will still go to Glasgow.

heart&dagger 04-30-2013 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jovi_jewel (Post 1125750)
Official statement posted on Bonjovi.com that Richie won't be present for Europe and South Africa due to personal issues. I'm trying to be optimistic, but I'm starting to accept my favorite guitarist might be gone for good. I hate that I've never gotten to hear him play live

I saw that same statement. Also, I think we all (for the most part) saw this coming. Doesn't make it any easier to accept, especially when no reason has been given. "Due to personal issues/matters." ???

I bet Jon is madder than a wet hen, right now!!!

And, AEG, has their hands full, at the moment, dealing with the Michael Jackson lawsuit, so Jon is going to have his hands full, with this latest news.

*sigh*

CKatz 04-30-2013 07:27 PM

I'm not going now.

KeepTheFaith2211 04-30-2013 07:27 PM

I feel pretty deflated now.


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